Author Topic: cloud point - brrrr  (Read 7015 times)

biobill

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cloud point - brrrr
« on: October 16, 2006, 02:23:41 AM »
  Just wondering how  the grease crackers are making out with the cold weather performance of their fuels. I used PS diesel additive last winter which got me down to about 15-18F before I needed kero. The feed stock is WVO from a wide variety of sources which I filter to 100 mic. before processing, the idea being to remove the heavier grease in hopes of a lower cloud point. Don't really know if it's worthwhile though - takes a lot of time. Any thoughts? My local Amsoil dealer said that they have a new antigel out this year. Has anyone tried it? I have some on order, will do a side by side when it comes in and post the results. Sure would be nice to have a good solution to the cold problem.  ???      Bill
Off grid since 1990
6/1 Metro DI living in basement, cogen
6/1 Metro IDI running barn & biodiesel processer
VW 1.6 diesels all over the place
Isuzu Boxtruck, Ford Backhoe, all running on biodiesel
Needs diesel lawnmower & chainsaw

fuddyduddy

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Re: cloud point - brrrr
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2006, 03:24:53 PM »
Hello BioBill,
Have used PS Arctic Express antigel for many years, and they have out a new Biodiesel antigel. The antigels work far better than Diesel Kleen and other additives.

Try http://www.powerservice.com/arcticexp_bd_antigel.asp . When I tried the recommended dose in pure canola oil, it did not gel at the freezer temp. 

Again, about the easiest way to make a heavy fuel (WVO, etc) work if you are too lazy to heat it,  is to dilute with 10-30% pump gasoline, and add PS Antigel, Diesel 911, and Diesel Kleen.  Heat, treat, dilute....  BUT; below 0°F,  heat is just about a must for all alternative fuels.

Have put extra fuel tanks in all three of the diesel pickups, so can run biodiesel, veggie (yup, have heaters in two of the three) , or even straight diesel (isn't the new yellow/green color scary?!) .

biobill

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Re: cloud point - brrrr
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2006, 05:25:22 AM »
Good information fuddyduddy, thanks. Now to track the stuff down...I'm kind of an oddity in these parts...well in most parts actually. So with all those fuel tanks in your pickups can you still cary a payload?    Bill
Off grid since 1990
6/1 Metro DI living in basement, cogen
6/1 Metro IDI running barn & biodiesel processer
VW 1.6 diesels all over the place
Isuzu Boxtruck, Ford Backhoe, all running on biodiesel
Needs diesel lawnmower & chainsaw

Rainbow-Farm

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Re: cloud point - brrrr
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2006, 02:41:00 PM »
BioBill and FuddyDuddy:

For 3 short posts, that was highly informative, and so was my journey around the PS (Power Service) site. For heaters, what type of heater goes into a fuel tank? Is there one made for that? Have you adapted something? I am thinking that once running (generator for occasional use), heat is available (either from electric heater run by the gen-set, or from coolant heat from the gen-set). Prior to start-up, there may be no electricity available to heat the fuel.

I am starting to believe tales I have heard of people lighting fires under their engines, to heat the fuel in the tanks.

Odd comparison but, when my wood stove is running, it is "pre-heating" and drying wood that is in the house. To start a fire cold from wood stored outside is slower, more difficult.

I am starting to think of using a portable propane heater to pre-heat an enclosed space with the generator in it (shed, carport, etc.)... just enough to get it up and running.

 
Do not trust the "grid" folks!

fuddyduddy

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Re: cloud point - brrrr
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2006, 04:18:06 PM »
Hello BB,
OK, for heaters try http://www.plantdrive.com/products/hotfox/hotfox.html, or http://vegoilconversions.netfirms.com/  I prefer water heaters instead of the electric ones.

Where I logged  on the Pacific Coast, it never got so cold we had to start a fire under a skidder or loader. But, one of the old-timers I knew told me he used to do that in Alaska. He taught me the trick of wetting a red rag with a little chainsaw gas, and putting it up to the air intake of a tired old IH cat (HD27?) we used for road building, and it always started right up that way.  We never used ether.  Well, almost never!

For tanks that fit along the sides of the front of standard long wide bed Fords, Chevs, and Dodges,  try http://www.nwmp.com/  . The tank you want is a universal 16 gal vegoil tank kit. It is not even shown in their literature.  Both the 96 and 93 Chevs have two each of these.  About 65 gallons total, and 1,000 miles or so between fill ups.

The 05 GMC crew cab has a Northern Tool (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200318087_200318087) 90 gal aluminum tank mounted cross-bed, and it is a short bed, so It loses 16" of its 76" long bed space. However, the benefit is, it goes around 2,000 miles between fillups!

I prefer to chemically treat first, and dilute 2nd, and heat as a last resort. BUT, if I lived in a cold climate, would have to change that order!!

In the winter, I ALWAY add PS Diesel 911, Diesel Kleen, and Biogel with every re-fuel.

You have my sympathy on the firewood. Cut it, hauled it, stacked it, and heated with it for almost 20 years...

The 275 gallon oil tanks from houses for heating oil can be found for little or nothing. Mount one in a heated place, and use that to feed the Listeroid.  Look on Craig's List., the Nickel Ads, etc.




mobile_bob

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Re: cloud point - brrrr
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2006, 03:27:41 AM »
speaking from experience you don't want to have to degel a tank of fuel by means of a fire if you can avoid it
i have spent countless hours in my younger years thawing trucks, degelling by fire and it is no fun.
i have had to do it down to -25 F, and it is a miserable task to say the least.
it is amazing how much fire it takes to break down the gell in a 150 gallon tank, only to have the engine start and gell again in the engine fuel rails and plumbing, necessitating more fire up under the truck, with you under it keeping watch over the flames to keep from setting the truck on fire as well.

not much fun laying in ice and snow under a truck for 6 to 8 hours!

the upside is, truck underbellies aren't very flammable at such low temperatures. :)

FD has given good advise, all would do well to follow his direction, especially if you live in the frigid north.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info