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Author Topic: Isuzu c201 diesel engine from reefer unit  (Read 10403 times)
rcavictim
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« on: October 08, 2006, 10:58:00 am »

All,

I have been aware of an old ThermoKing reefer unit mounted on a deconmmissioned highway trailer now for some time in a farmer`s field not too far from me and decided to finally pursue it after some research and glowing praise for the very long lifetime expectancy and reliability of this engine as from the mouth of one of our guru engine experts here.

See the engine here. http://thermoparts.com/isuzu_diesel_engines_repair_c201.html

Check out that massive 17 litre (quart) cast aluminum oil pan!  Someone please correct me if I`m mistaken but I think I read this engine has replaceable wet cylinder sleeves and both pressure lube circulating filter as well as bypass filter.  Wow.  That is serious, made to last, made to run long hours unattended, re-buildable industrial engine technoliogy.

So....yesterday I went and paid the owner a visit, examined the machine in more detail and made a deal with him.  I should have the engine with attached V-twin directly driven compressor and all the associated bits, removed from the reefer enclosure to make handling easy before the snow flies this year.  Won`t be long.  This gives me a nice indoor winter project (like I needed another  Huh  )

My intended application is to direct couple this 2 litre, 4-cylinder water cooled, IDI diesel engine which is designed to work well at a leisurely 1300 RPM, or faster speeds, to an 1800 RPM Alternator generator head and use it as a power plant, much like I did from scratch with a 1980, 1.5 litre VW 4-cylinder IDI Rabbit diesel engine here already.  It sure sounds like the Isuzu will make a longer lived package and overhaul kits are much cheaper than for the VW engine.

I want a generator that can be run 24/7 for long periods and while the VW appears that it can, I know it won`t give me 30,000 hours service life between major overhauls.  It sounds like the Isuzu may.

Anyone out ther do anything similar with one of these reefer diesel plants?  Got any helpful tips for me?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2006, 11:38:57 am by rcavictim » Logged

-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
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-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion
gpkull
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2006, 10:30:11 pm »

i purchased a carrier with a yanmar and a blowed up compressor. not sure about capacitys but they are all up there. was going to turn my 24k head w/ it but also aquired a 24/2 so the carrier went on the back burner. i was not sure how the gov would work out it has high and low cool  2200/1300 rpm big solinoids control that. havent given up if i have to ill get a gov off a gravley but i have to finish the riod project first. i beleive that all the refer units are good and heavy duty but even the smallest isuzus are a very fine peice of work with many mant hours of work ahead. is that a na motor
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mobile_bob
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« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2006, 02:27:55 am »

be sure and get the overhaul manual from thermo king, it is only 16 bucks US, and is one of the best manuals i have seen.
it is full of picture and spec's and practical stuff to aid in the overhaul of the engine

the engine was also marketed by thermo king in their gensets, governed at 1800 rpm, the manual details the internal adjustment needed to get stable operation as a genset prime mover.

as near as i have seen they are not wet sleeve motors, the pistons come in oversizes and i have seen reference to dry sleeves being available to repair a bore or the whole block.

the amazing thing about these little guys is they reportedly run forever with very loose tolerances

one of the thermoking mechanics i talked to told me they will start and run  well even when worn so badly that one cannot understand how they would run at all.

they also have beautifully engineered resilient mounts, and for a stationary engine do quite well with them it would seem.

on the plus side

they have real oil pumps, full flow and bypass oil filters
primary and secondary fuel filters, fuel transfer pumps
indirect injection, with removable prechambers in the head
electric start which is nice, alternator brackets and drive system
they have electric shutdown solenoid, and all the guage sensors etc one would want
they have dual range injection pumps that are typically set at 1300rpm low speed and flip a switch and have 2200rpm
via a solenoid.
real water pump and thermostat system
etc etc
and they are made to be rebuilt with everything available to do so quite reasonably.

lifespan is supposed to be in excess of 20k hours with normal maintenance, which i think is probably nearly no maintenance
on regular oil and reportedly up to 60 k hours with good maintenance using synthetic oil.

they weigh in at around 625 lbs or so, so they arent puny little motors

most are rated at 27 hp @2200 rpm, which is quite useful amount of power

they run quite nicely just sitting on a pallet as well, seem to have pretty nice balance

might be an often overlooked but suitable option for some folks

bob g
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rcavictim
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2006, 02:35:57 am »

i beleive that all the refer units are good and heavy duty but even the smallest isuzus are a very fine peice of work with many mant hours of work ahead. is that a na motor

Yes. na.

Mine has those big throttle control solenoids too.  I recall seeing two of them there, each the size of a can of beans.  They are rusted so badly however they will not move.

Good luck with yours when you get a round tuit.  Let us know when you do.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2006, 02:45:55 am by rcavictim » Logged

-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion
rcavictim
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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2006, 02:41:50 am »

be sure and get the overhaul manual from thermo king, it is only 16 bucks US, and is one of the best manuals i have seen.
it is full of picture and spec's and practical stuff to aid in the overhaul of the engine

the engine was also marketed by thermo king in their gensets, governed at 1800 rpm, the manual details the internal adjustment needed to get stable operation as a genset prime mover....


bob g

Bob,

Thanx for all the good advice and info.  Great idea on the maual, I`ll get right on it. 

As far as the setup at 1800 RPM for driving a generating alternator, are you suggesting there is sufficient speed governor built in to the FI pump setup as supplied to take care of the accurate 1800 RPM speed control with varying electrical load, thus eliminating the need to install a separate pulley driven governor to modulate the FI pump throttle lever (as I needed to do with the VW genset)?
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-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion
listeroidsusa
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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2006, 03:23:15 am »

I've got the head off of my C201 for a decarb job and at 16,000 hours it still has the hone marks in the cylinders with no apparent wear at all. It did get overheated and had started burning oil so I'll put in a set of rings and rod bearings. These are also very inexpensive to overhaul. It does use dry liners. The COMPLETE overhaul kit is around $450 and includes liners, pistons, rings,, valves, springs, cam bearings, rod and main bearings, and a complete gasket set, plus more!

Mike
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mobile_bob
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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2006, 04:07:20 am »

can you provide a link to the kit with liners, the overhaul manual omits any reference to liners,

bob g
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listeroidsusa
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« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2006, 04:29:21 am »

I priced the kit on the net a couple of months ago but I don't remember the site. It was aftermarket parts, not Isuzu brand. I think the kits  are listed in Rock and Dirt.com also.
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rcavictim
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« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2006, 04:40:53 am »

I am not familiar with dry liners.  Wouldn`t these be a bear to remove/re-fit?  What kind of wall thickness is a dry liner?  How much clearance is the fit?  Is there a heat transfer compound/grease inserted in the gap?
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-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion
mobile_bob
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« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2006, 05:37:22 am »

dry liners are usually quite thin and very hard

detroits 71 series used them and were about 3/16" thick, and were slip fit
interestingly the liners while available in oversizes, allowing the block to be bored and trued up, there were 3 fits on the standard liner, 1st, 2nd and 3rd fit
all with the same part number, 1st fit was the smallest liner of the tolerance, 2nd was the middle of the standard tolerance and the 3rd was the standard od that was still inside the tolerance but just barely.  the way you tell one from the other was where the electoetch part number was on the liner, up under the lip was a first fit, above the ports was a 2nd fit, and below the port was a 3rd fit. selecting the proper fit made for a very tight liner and better heat transfer. inline 71 series engines were marked on the deck as to what fit liners were installed in each hole at the factory, v- series engines were not. never understood why.

you could not tell which fit liner was in a standard cylinder kit without opening the kit and pulling out the liner, parts guys hated this.

also 71 series liners had to be slip fit as the piston, rod, liner was all installed as a kit in the engine as the piston was to be never installed from the top, the oil rings would be damaged if they were allowed to go past the ports, so the piston was loaded from the bottom of the liner.

early mack engines such as the endt 675 and 676, were about 1/8" thick and hard as glass, and nearly as brittle, they were frozen in dry ice and slipped in quickly
all 6 had to be installed in under a minute, or the cold would shrink the bore next down the line, and you would have to stop and rewarm the block, later mack engines went to slip fit, and were still very thin and hard liners

most others i am aware of are press or shrink fit.

the use of these liners allows for some cool metallurgy to be used and induction hardening to get superior wear properties

on slip fit, the clearance is quite tight, most under a thou, about half a thou is a good fit, nothing is put on the liners, no grease, no oil or any other heat compounds
the heat transfer improves as the engine gets hot under load the liners swell and make good contact with the block. works well if fitted properly.

if the isuzu engines use liners, that would be a huge plus, enabling very long life, and in theory much longer than any other bore type especially if they are hardened liners
however they have to be installed.

bob g
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rcavictim
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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2006, 12:25:54 pm »

Bob,

Thanx for that tutorial on dry liners.  On the engines that use shrink fit (temperature extreme assisted), am I correct in my notion that one runs a arc welder and stick welds a couple of beads lengthwise down the bore of a liner to shrink it to facilitate removal?

I can understand how a factory prepared ring running surface on a precision hardened bore would be an attractive advantage giving you ring and bore life unheard of with the usual DIY boring/deglazing frequently accomplished with oil/solvent squirter bottle and a power drill in your garage.  I would imagine the same advantages would be seen in replaceable wet liners which sound like less fooling around to me even if there is more metal to them and therefore possibly more cost.

I now own my first diesel engine with wet liners, a IHC TD14, four cylinder (460 or 480 cu.in.) with gasoline start.  I have the tracked crawler that it needs to go into as well.  Not feeling up to the task.  Anyone want a neat toy and serious heavy metal project?  You`ll need to float about 30,000 lbs. 1-1/4 hrs NW of Toronto.
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-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion
mobile_bob
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« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2006, 02:01:12 pm »

i have head of useing a welder to assist in removing liners, but i would not do it myself, on very thin liners, if you arent extremely careful, you will burn thru and then you
have a real mess

every shop i know of uses the otc hydraulic puller to remove them

old macks were a b@tch, they took ~30 tons of pull, and then would pop, jumping up about 1/16", then pump up to 30 tons again and repeat, took a while.

bob g
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twombo
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« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2006, 03:33:44 pm »

What kind of fuel consumption numbers are we talking about with these "I SUE YOU"  motors (remember the Joe Isuzu commercial?)

Mike
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mobile_bob
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« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2006, 05:13:04 pm »

i don't have specific numbers, but i would expect them to be right in the average for consumption with
listeroids, etc lbs/hp

i did run my first one in a complete unit, without load at 2200 on a 20 oz pop bottle for over an hour, and didnt use the whole bottle,, if i recall it was about 1/4 full when i finished the run, and it was producing high heat on the high cycle, during that run.

so i am not sure, but i would expect them to be very good

bob g
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« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2006, 06:11:25 pm »

Kinda wonder if I even have enough load to keep for wetstacking the little beast?

Hell,  I may have to get a big head and connect the neighbors up to Twombo Power and Light.

Thanks Bob!

Mike
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