How does a CD Lister compare?

[Shadow]

I've came across another Lister, this ones a CD model. Number 356026 8 hp I think . Are the CD's good engines? As good as the CS's? I understand they run a bit faster but can they be slowed to the 650 or 700 rpm range? Thanks for any information.Its 5 hours away so thought I better learn a bit before going to look at it.

[listerdiesel]

See my response elsewhere on the CD and CE engines, spares are not good, four-bearing crank so pretty long-lived, gear oil pump etc etc.

As a long-term prospect, I'd be inclined to say go for something that you can get spares for, albeit getting more difficult in the case of the Lister engines.

We have some small spares for the CD/CE but all the big stuff like liners etc went some time ago.

The CD and CE went out of production in the early 1950's, probably 1952, 5/1 and 6/1 and variants went on a lot longer, because they were much cheaper to produce for an undiscerning market.

Peter

[snail]

out of production in the early 1950's, probably 1952, 5/1 and 6/1 and variants went on a lot longer, because they were much cheaper to produce for an undiscerning market.

Talk about living dangerously! GF's toy is about that age....... and he knows where you live

Brian

[mobile_bob]

careful there Peter, there are those that see your words as blasphemy, and surely you will be caned, stoned or worse.


bob g

[listerdiesel]

out of production in the early 1950's, probably 1952, 5/1 and 6/1 and variants went on a lot longer, because they were much cheaper to produce for an undiscerning market.

Talk about living dangerously! GF's toy is about that age....... and he knows where you live

Brian

Not a problem, he is always welcome to come round and chew over some old iron :-)) as is anyone else for that matter, we know that a lot of you guys are over the pond, but if you are ever this way, give us a shout!

Peter

[listerdiesel]

careful there Peter, there are those that see your words as blasphemy, and surely you will be caned, stoned or worse.


bob g

It's a matter of fact that not all Listers were hugely successful, and there are models in all the ranges which were the greatest thing when they came out but were quietly dropped when resources were pumped into newer models.

I personally like the CD and CE engines, and have one of each holding the workshop floor down, but as the OP asked about the engines generally, I'd rather give an honest answer that I can support, than an answer that he wants to hear.

I don't know why the CS was such a success, as the CD was technically a better engine. It was substantially more expensive to produce though and the eventuall replacement by the FR engines meant that decent numbers never got into preservation, most were junked in the 1950's and 1960's before the old iron craze took off over here in the UK.

Look also at the Ruston & Hornsby VTH VTO series of engines, very similar to the CD and CE ranges.

The FR was technically a superb engine, but was short-lived as Listers went into air-cooled engine shortly afterwards. The last big fling was the JA and JW big diesels, even a turbocharged version, but they could not compete with the volume engine builders.

There are a series of JW6 engines on the Thames Barrier sub-barriers around the Thames Estuary up near Canvey Island, we installed new batteries and chargers on them about 8 years ago.

Peter

[listeroidsusa]

More toys to add to my collection! I just won the Ebay bids on both of the UK  Lister CD engines. Although I sell the Indian copies I still like having some of the original engines, and the CD engines are quite rare here in the US. It will give me something to compare the new model GM-90 hybrid engines with. I am having some hybrid GM-90 engines built that share portions of both the CD and the CS engines. The hybrid has the bore and stroke of the CD but looks like a miniature CS. They look good so far and I'll be able to tell more about them when my order arrives in a couple of months. These will be the first ones imported into the US.

Now, Peter, still have the CD head available?

Mike Montieth
Listeroids/USA

[hotater]

Glad you got it Mike!   I would have bid on it,  but couldn't find  the handcuff key in time.   

[listerdiesel]

More toys to add to my collection! I just won the Ebay bids on both of the UK  Lister CD engines. Although I sell the Indian copies I still like having some of the original engines, and the CD engines are quite rare here in the US. It will give me something to compare the new model GM-90 hybrid engines with. I am having some hybrid GM-90 engines built that share portions of both the CD and the CS engines. The hybrid has the bore and stroke of the CD but looks like a miniature CS. They look good so far and I'll be able to tell more about them when my order arrives in a couple of months. These will be the first ones imported into the US.

Now, Peter, still have the CD head available?

Mike Montieth
Listeroids/USA

You paid what I would say was a highish price for that, surprising how engine prices are creeping up these days, maybe I ought to dig out the CD/Mawdsley genset and put that up on ebay! :-))

I'm out today but I'll check where the head is and post back tonight. There are no valves or springs etc with it, I'll see if I have a set of secondhand bits to make it up.

Peter
 

[listeroidsusa]

Yes, I agree it was a bit of a high price. It was a much more reasonable 170 L up until the last 5 seconds when I was being sniped. Even so, here in the US $525 for an original running Lister is a bargain. I regularly see the A's, L's, and ball head Listers with asking prices of $2000+ at engine shows. Original CS engines are for the most part unaffordable. I'd like to be able to buy up many of the engines I see on Ebay.UK. Your prices are quite reasonable on old iron in GB. Old iron collecting here in the US has just about wiped out available, affordable engines. For most people here a Listeroid is about the only option.

This price doesn't include shipping. I'm lucky in that I have an excellent international freight forwarder with whom I've had many years experience. They can get almost anything moved, and at reasonable prices.

Mike Montieth

[listerdiesel]

Yes, I agree it was a bit of a high price. It was a much more reasonable 170 L up until the last 5 seconds when I was being sniped. Even so, here in the US $525 for an original running Lister is a bargain. I regularly see the A's, L's, and ball head Listers with asking prices of $2000+ at engine shows. Original CS engines are for the most part unaffordable. I'd like to be able to buy up many of the engines I see on Ebay.UK. Your prices are quite reasonable on old iron in GB. Old iron collecting here in the US has just about wiped out available, affordable engines. For most people here a Listeroid is about the only option.

This price doesn't include shipping. I'm lucky in that I have an excellent international freight forwarder with whom I've had many years experience. They can get almost anything moved, and at reasonable prices.

Mike Montieth

If you can't get the '£' sign up on the keyboard 'UKP' is a good substitute. We have both $ and £ and maybe the Euro sign as well, maybe you should change your keyboards to European spec? :-))

Going back to the engine and the bidding, one guy I have been watching, and in 18 months of being an ebay member he has yet to win an auction, despite bidding on a whole slew of engines and bits. This to my mind is a right royal PITA, as he is just enjoying bidding without seemingly getting any results, and the other bidders end up paying more for his pleasure.

I have often put "no zero-rated bidders" on my own ebay auctions as they can be a bl**dy nuisance and put genuine bidders off the thing completely. They also occasionally turn out to be shill bidders, when I have great pleasure in shopping them and their associates to ebay. I think we have caught 10 or 11 over the years, they need to be stamped out.

Gradually we are seeing the remnants of the UK stock of engines going, but there are still plenty in Europe. I know or knew of a pair of CD's in Portugal which we viewed on our last trip, asking price was about £130.00 each, but I had three on the trailer and another pair was just that bit too much to haul back by road and ferry to add to the collection. I don't buy and sell at all, most of what we have we have acquired over the years, and a lot of that is gradually going to support folks who have these engines running.

Shipping can be a killer, good that you have someone who can handle that for you.

I'll get back later with info re the cylinder head, got some CAD work to do right now, just back from a 400-mile delivery trip!

Peter

[listerdiesel]

I'll get back later with info re the cylinder head, got some CAD work to do right now, just back from a 400-mile delivery trip!

Peter

Head found OK, just a big brute of thing to pick up!  It is roughly twice the weight of a CS single head.

Picture at:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Misc/CDHead1.jpg

Valve guides look fine, can probably make up valves/springs/collets etc from new parts but don't have anything secondhand except for one exhaust valve. Rocker gear is also something I'll have to have a look around for, don't think I have a set of parts for those.

Rocker cover is even more rare :-))

Peter

[listeroidsusa]

Just got back from a 400 mile trip today myself. I went to a training seminar for more new Haas turning centers with live tooling. With the CNC machinery we have on hand at the college I teach at making small parts is no problem. I'm planning to machine a light alloy valve cover anyway, either that or a die to stamp new ones. If I do stamp some out I think they'd sell on Ebay if anyone wanted one. With all of this new equipment at my disposal I'm like a kid in a candy store!!!!!

Mike

[listerdiesel]

Just got back from a 400 mile trip today myself. I went to a training seminar for more new Haas turning centers with live tooling. With the CNC machinery we have on hand at the college I teach at making small parts is no problem. I'm planning to machine a light alloy valve cover anyway, either that or a die to stamp new ones. If I do stamp some out I think they'd sell on Ebay if anyone wanted one. With all of this new equipment at my disposal I'm like a kid in a candy store!!!!!

Mike

The CD and CE rocker covers are a little more complex than the CS, with an air inlet passage inside the casting. You may be better off waiting for the engine and using the cover on that one as a pattern to get some cast. There are a few guys in the USA that have contacted me for the cover over the years, but I have no feel for how many you would sell.

Using an existing item as a pattern can work well, but you need to blank off any thread holes etc etc before you use it in the core box. We have had a few items remanufactured this way.

Peter

[listeroidsusa]

Over the years I've build a number of parts this way. I have a fully equipped machine shop myself and have lathes, mills, CNC and manual, furnaces, moulding bench, ect. I once did the prototyping work for Outboard Marine Corp. on some of their new model engines. We did patternmaking, lost foam casting,  and machining. Several of the special service tools I designed ended up with "Snap on" branded on them when OMC sold me out on the designs I was doing for them. I never did get paid for some of them, they'd want me to prototype a tool and turn it in for evaluation, with the expectation that my company would get the manufacturing job. Some I never heard back from and later found my designs at the dealers and in the factory with other folks brands on them. Oh well, you win a few and lose a few.

Mike