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Author Topic: Two Listers in tandem?  (Read 11536 times)

listermandan

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Two Listers in tandem?
« on: January 02, 2006, 03:51:01 PM »
Can anyone tell me if you can run two 6/1 Listeroids in tandem? If so what kind of coupler should I use? Thanks Dan

dkmc

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Re: Two Listers in tandem?
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2006, 04:23:57 PM »

Yes you can.
The coupler is called a 12/2 and is supplied by the factory  :D

Seriously, why not use a 12/2 instead of connecting 2 6/1's?

dk

Machinist, fabricator, designer, fixer

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Two Listers in tandem?
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2006, 06:48:55 PM »
The answer is efficiency. The base line fuel required to run a 12/2 before you add load to it is probably about twice what a 6/1 would use. During light evening loads, one 6/1 would power a whole house. If you could start a second one and run it in parallel like a power plant, you could use the kitchen range or the clothes drier in addition to the other house loads.
1) Use two complete and separate diesel generator sets and learn how to synchronise them, so you can run them in parallel. (I see Honda offers an interconnect cable that parallels two of their portable generators).
2) Use one large generator and couple both engines to it in a way that allows either engine to declutch. Check Grainger.com or McMaster-Carr.com for power transmission shafts, bearings, clutches etc.
    In either case the governors need to be able to load share.
I have a 25/2 and would like to justify a 6/1 for light loads, (Yeah, That's the ticket!) ::) then just switch from one to the other. (Keeping my clock radio & computer on a UPS so I won't have to restart it) :P
Good luck
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's

dkmc

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Re: Two Listers in tandem?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2006, 09:06:53 PM »
Well,
1 sounds pretty reasonable.
2 sounds like adding hardware that will fail at the worst possible time.

How about shutting of the fuel to 1 cylinder in the 12/2 ?

MU (Multi Unit) operation would be fun with electronic govenors.
Another feature to incorporate in an EMS System.....

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cujet

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Re: Two Listers in tandem?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2006, 02:18:05 AM »
I have a couple of thoughts on this one.

1) use a common large gen head with 2 sprag pulleys. That way either engine could be shut down.

2) I have heard that using an induction motor as a generator head will sync properly with existing power. So use 1 standard Listgen setup and 1 Lister with an induction motor gen head as a syncronous setup. Dunno how feasable this is, as I have never seen it done. However there is some info via internet on grid tie with an induction motor gen setup.

Chris
People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence

trigzy

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Re: Two Listers in tandem?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2006, 03:03:03 AM »
Here's my thought;

1) Leave your existing 25/2 connected to your generator
2) Mechanically lock a 1000RPM rated engine to your 25/2

Then, heres where the fun/creativity comes in:

Monitor (any, all, or a combination):
Fuel rack position
Electrical
Engine run time
Oil pressure, water temp etc

And use those paramaters to alter fuel position, compression release, total shutdown etc.

You could use simple mechanical springs, or a complex electronic system to do this.

I rigged up a small little "black box" to do this with some portable diesel generators.  When the load approaches the max (18Amps out of the max 20Amps), the device activates the electric starter on the second genset for up to 10 seconds util it sees voltage output on the Gen head or charge coil.  Then waits until the two are within sync by about 20V, and then closes the two together, locking them in phase.  When the  load drops down to below 16Amps per phase, the relay is opened, the two generators fall out of sync, and the second generators shut down selenoid is actived.  (They're both diesel)  It required some rewiring of the generator, but sure works nicely.  Only works if you are slowly adding small loads though, adding a 20amp load pulls the voltage down so low that the two gens wont come in sync without some tweaking on the governor of the second generator before the breaker trips out on the first unit.

Have some fun,


Steve
Power Anand 24/2, Brushless 20kW, some other antique iron.
Vendor of AVR's, Small Clones of Yanmar Diesel and Honda Gasoline Engines

listermandan

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Re: Two Listers in tandem?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2006, 07:17:07 PM »
Hoedy! I burn used motor oil for fuel so consumption is not an issue. So I think it will work?

trigzy

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Re: Two Listers in tandem?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2006, 03:52:51 AM »
Dan,
    So if it's not the fuel consumption then WHY do you want to tie the two units together when they make a two cylinder version - I'm all up for a "project" - but I dont see what you're trying to achive.

Steve
Power Anand 24/2, Brushless 20kW, some other antique iron.
Vendor of AVR's, Small Clones of Yanmar Diesel and Honda Gasoline Engines

cujet

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Re: Two Listers in tandem?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2006, 07:36:24 PM »
I have become convinced that the single cylinder lister types are somewhat better than the twins. I think this because the singles have a sump for the con rod dipper. They also have a baffle underneath for the remainer of the oil. This allows debris and whatnot to settle below, while the engine remains clean. Also, the singles have an effective reed valve system to keep the crankcase pressure low. This same system on the twins is not effective.

Chris
People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence

rocket

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Re: Two Listers in tandem?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2006, 09:07:09 PM »
i like the twin better. it is more balanced by its nature. runs smoother. and has a simple effective oiling system.

Stan

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Re: Two Listers in tandem?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2006, 11:39:52 PM »
How about a genuine Lister JP6.  61hp/6 cylinders :o
Stan

binnie

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Re: Two Listers in tandem?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2006, 07:56:10 PM »
Has anyone seen this photo of two 6/1s in Tandem...check it out..
 http://oldstylelisters.com/images/Running_on_Black_Gold_12-10-2005_012.jpg
>
Listeroid 12/2 Jkson with 10kw head, for backup now on diesel. Future interests: WVO, bio,  Cogen - Heat exchangers - solar.

solarguy

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Re: Two Listers in tandem?
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2006, 09:02:52 PM »
I am also highly interested in a nice clean functional solution for two single listers driving one gen for ideal load matching.

Finest regards,

troy

SHIPCHIEF

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Re: Two Listers in tandem?
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2006, 03:34:51 AM »
Very interesting. Would be nice with cog belt drive to keep the power pulses timed.....
Or with separate clutches for half duty efficiency.
Ashwamegh 25/2 & ST12
Lister SR2 10Kw 'Long Edurance' genset on a 10 gallon sump/skid,
Onan 6.5NH in an old Jeager Compressor trailer and a few CCK's