Puppeteer

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Thought I should add that "genuine" Lister Petter parts does not mean what it once did. The current owners of that mark are sourcing parts from India along with selling old stocks. They claim higher standards are applied but I have two experiences that dictate otherwise.

So often the way now.  So many things come from the cheapest source and are simply re branded and marked up for manufacturers while the no names sell the exact same thing and are labeled Chinese crap because they are sold cheaper.
 
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Thought I should add that "genuine" Lister Petter parts does not mean what it once did. The current owners of that mark are sourcing parts from India along with selling old stocks. They claim higher standards are applied but I have two experiences that dictate otherwise.
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The bump clearance on a PJ is indeed set via the number of and various thickness of the base gaskets which are actually steel shims. As I remember three different thickness are available to be used in combination as needed. That being said 1mm is a LOT or variance. Much more than,would be seen normally and can be due to issues that are not readily apparent. From what I have read on this thread you need to put down the tools until you have a manual. A person can feel his way through a simple overhaul but when an engine has suffered previously in unknown ways all that can be accomplished by me from a distance is to throw darts at it. One possibility that will not be in a manual is that the shop that honed your cylinders did not use a fixture that simulates being installed on an engine. The bores are pulled around by the clamping forces thus A cylinder that is made round while not clamped will not be round when installed.
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Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Resurrection of a Lister 12/2
« Last post by sirpedrosa on Today at 01:48:09 AM »
Hi Guys

Good news and other not so. right Cyl very good shape, left cyl has 2 pits 10cm below top. Right piston good condition, left more pitted on top.

By the way, the two pistons are aligned both with notch to left side (view from governor). Both has the light shade of inlet valve.

Cheers
VP

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Hi Bob, but I wrote I had adjusted the bump clearances. They are the same now by putting more gaskets under one cylinder.

You shouldn't have to do that, it is really bit of a band aid solution.  Packing anything with multiple gaskets where there is not meant to be to take up dodgy tolerances is never a good practice. All the heights should have been checked as things went along.  The cylinders for instance should have been checked they were the same height and machined if they were not. I would hope the machine shop did that but they might have done as asked and nothing more and if not asked in the first place..... same as the pistons, rods  and normally the crank throw out would be as well. Bob found his bearings were out when he did his engine. It starts at the beginning and goes from there.

I think this is a concern that the engine has been put together without these basic and fundamental things done.
Unfortunately you can't ever assume things fit together right because they are new or refurbished.  There are tolerances for a start. Everything has a margin of this to that rather than one specific. If it is within the range then it's good. The thing is on occasion, all the margins go to one side instead of balancing.  If the bore is tight and the pistons are large and the ring s are a fraction oversize..... it all adds up to a tight engine that could cause problems you are seeing.  you really need to pull it all down and check everything to see where the problem lies.

It could be none of the things we have suggested. It's not easy to diagnose things when you can't see them and only relying on the info you are given. Possibly one look at the engine would make the problem obvious, maybe not but there is nothing like seeing and playing with something yourself same as not actually being able to see what the engine does when it stops.

I have often found the shortcut to problems is doing things the long way.  There is every possibility you may have more than one problem so pulling the engine apart and starting from scratch may in fact be the quickest and easiest fix.  Start with you bump Clearance and find why that's different.  are the Cylinders 1mm different? if so then you can get that fixed. maybe the pistons are different heights in the crown, are the clearances OK or is one far too tight? What ARE the ring gaps, is the bore still OK or does it need re machining now?..... so it goes.  If the cylinder heights are out and the Ring gaps too tight then you have fixed both things.

Also, if you don't have a manual, how did you determine and what did you set the rocker clearances at?  Won't have any effect on the problem but it's a measurement that needs to be set for best performance.  10-12 Thou would be ballpark on these too but just wondering how they were set and where the number came from?

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Hey Rob, When you fitted the new pistons did you fit new small end bushes (wrist pin bushes in the USA)? generally these are made of bronze and are pressed into place. They require reaming afterwards. If the machine shop reamed these out of square the piston will bind at the top one side and at the bottom on the other. When you checked the bump stop did you use two identical length pieces of lead, one either side of the piston above the gudgeon pin. The two pieces should measure the same thickness after performing the bump. If they do not then the bush is out of square.

Bob
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Engines / Tl2 running fault
« Last post by Darren moom on October 18, 2018, 11:01:01 PM »
Hi all.. first post from me!
I have a tl2 which used to run 2 hydraulic pumps. It's now just a naked stationary engine for me, which is all I want it for.
It was full of dirt after being stood for a few year's, I have cleaned the fuel system fully and got it to start, but it's straight to flat out and only way to stop it is crack the injectors.
Should it idle? Or is could it be governed to run flat out.
Is there a way I can check or alter how it runs?
Thanks for reading this  far!
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Engines / Re: going prices on lister ST2 engine ???????
« Last post by shawn burke on October 18, 2018, 09:27:58 PM »
I only have 1 good starter and have used it on all 4 engines for testing and have changed the oil and have had all 4 started 2 on diesel under their on systems and 2 using wd-40
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General Discussion / Re: heat exchanger
« Last post by BruceM on October 18, 2018, 06:50:04 PM »
"I think given a length of pipe which both ends can be opened for wet flushing or Physical removal with a brush, cleaning should be easy and the heat transfer effective."

Sounds like a good plan, Glort.  Veggie's clamp on tube fins is also a good way to increase surface area.

I have a crazy idea-  what if the exhaust was directed into a barrel of water, with a diffuser to get lots of small bubbles throughout the tank for good gas to water heat exhange.  With lots of pex or copper tube for heat exchange in the tank.  You'd have to dispose of the water periodically, perhaps after adding detergent and agitating via drill mixer.  Of course this would only work if you could use heated water below 100F/boiling.





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General Discussion / Re: heat exchanger
« Last post by glort on October 18, 2018, 06:14:28 PM »
If you are planning to heat the same room that the engine located, maybe a very long run of exhaust pipe within the room (before exiting the building) would give off a fair bit of heat like a radiator.

Having had a bit to do with alternative heaters in various forms, I am always amused to see how people Duct Flues out of the home/ area to be heated ASAP.  Some have the exhaust going straight through a wall and to the outside of the building.  Very few realise the heat in the exhaust and take advantage.
Ideally you want heater ( wood/oil/ etc) burner at one end of the space to be heated and the  flue exit at the oother giving the longest resident time of the gasses to transfer their heat to the flue and surrounding air.

The Russian Type stoves which have very long zig zagging passageways set in a large thermal mass work well and are efficent because they extract the maximum energy through the long exhaust passage and  sink it into a thermal mass which gently radiates the heat over time.

Perhaps with the long exhaust pipe, it could be placed along a wall say at a slight upward angle.  The engine exhaust input could be near the end of the pipe but enter in a T from the top. The pipe would exit both ends of the room.  At the lower end the pipe could be capped with a removable plug. For cleaning a hose or a long handled brush like those used for cleaning Chimineys could be inserted from the higher end and the Drain plug on the lower end removed therefor allowing the soot to  Flow right on out. Because the exhaust entered from the top of the pipe, the engine would not ingest any water.  It would simply flow out and past the tube.

I wonder what a small amount of water injected into the exhaust tube when it was hot would do?  Experience would suggest the carbon is pretty easily shifted and if the water was entered in a hot section where it could change to steam, it would probably dislodge a loot of buildup.  Perhaps an amount of detergent could be added to increase the effectiveness.

Injecting water into the engine itself may also help.
I have noticed going back to my early days with WI that the increased performance of a vehicle lasted a good time past when the water ran out.
The engine carbonizing up I do not believe is a possibility because if the fall off was that quick, the engine would  keep deteriorating  quickly and soon fail.
My un tested and unexamined theroy is the WI helps clean the exhaust, mainly the muffler of deposits allowing better gas flow.  Until the Deposits build to a level where exhaust gas pressure forces them out, the vehicle runs better through lesser exhaust restriction.

It is very easy to see the amount of black residue that is expelled when an engine is Given the water straight down the throat treatment. It is also easy to scrape thick Layers of carbon of an exhaust outlet. 

I think given a length of pipe which both ends can be opened for wet flushing or Physical removal with a brush, cleaning should be easy and the heat transfer effective.
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