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Messages - Horsepoor

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31
Listeroid Engines / Re: member etiquette and banning?
« on: November 12, 2013, 08:19:53 AM »
Dump / ban shit for brains. I come here for technical commentary not to wage battle. His vulgar comments are a distraction, any ideas he could possibly contribute are outweighed by his overwhelming ignorance. After all we already have a resident nut - Whilem.

32
Listeroid Engines / Re: Flywheel balancing question
« on: November 06, 2013, 05:13:10 AM »
I agree with everything XYZer just posted while I sitting in favored bar (brass ring, royal palm beach, 0030 hrs, drinking pitchers of coors lights, reading the forum, eating chilli. Life is good.. All our experience also indicates light on the counterbalance area, needing more weight. What we did having three engines between us was as follows: disassembled all three engines at the same time. Weighted all pistons, connecting rods, everything, then tried to match up similar parts. I remember grinding several ounces off of connecting rods, drilling holes in flywheels to remove a little metal from the rim, etc. this got us close, but we had three engines to work with 8 years ago.

33
Listeroid Engines / Re: Flywheel balancing question
« on: November 06, 2013, 05:07:30 AM »
My 20/2 GTC 850 rpm is sitting on several yards of fiber mesh concrete with 5/8 rebar inserted. It also sits on top of some improvised shock absorbers from a helicopter rotor system on heavy I beams. But this did'nt stop me from making an effort to balance the engine. More on this later on. Cujet, Rocketboy and I have thought about this a lot and want to standardize a twin balance method. But before I take this thread to twins, let's stick with single cylinders which is much less complicated due to the absence of a significant rocking moment ( side to side). A well balanced engine is more reliable, tears up fewer components, doesn't destroy our cheap ST generator heads as fast and is just, frankly, desirable. I am confident we have perfected the balance method for single cylinders. I world like to see others attempt the method and verify it is repeatable. Then let's move to twins.

34
Listeroid Engines / Re: Flywheel balancing question
« on: November 06, 2013, 02:32:49 AM »
Guys, technically - it is so easy to balance a single cylinder - a little time consuming but not hard. After all, didn’t you get a Listeroid to tinker with it? So, we know that pulling the flywheels off has been discussed on numerous other threads, not hard to do when you have a flywheel puller. Bubble balancing, or pendulum balancing both flywheels so they are the same weight is not hard, but takes time. What you end up with is two flywheels closely matched. Put your newly closely balanced flywheels back on the machine.

Next step is using an accelerometer to give you a numerical readout of how well you are doing. It is possible to see the improvement by carefully noting the up and down bounce but numbers are nice. Most people or their children have an IPhone or an IPad. This $4.99 application will give you the IPS (inch per second – acceleration in the X, Y, & Z planes). Now you have numbers to verify you need to add more weight or remove some. Here is the link:

http://dld-llc.com/Vibration2Manual/Credits.html#Introduction

Early on in this thread there was an eBay link to order strips of ¼ oz weights with adhesive backing. The strips are about 6 inches long and each weights 3 oz each in total. I ended up with 6 oz on the inside rim and 6 oz on the outside rim for a total of 12 oz on each flywheel. In other words, my counter balances were 12 oz too light. Yours will likely be different.

Here is the method we used. Assume that on your identically balanced flywheels, either the counter balance is too heavy or light. Measure the amplitude of Y and Z direction IPS with your $4.99 application. Mine started out at 1.8 IPS in the Y direction and less than 1 IPS in the Z direction. After adding 6 oz on each flywheel next to the counter weight, we got 1.4 IPS in the Y and 1 IPS in the Z. Next with 12 oz on each flywheel, we got 1.2 in the Y and 1.1 in the Z. This is where we stopped. Visually, you can see the slight movement (vibration) front to back and very slight movement (vibration) up and down. I’ll shoot a video and post in a day or two but you’ll see a Metro 6/1, mounted on a nursery cart with wheels (moves easily), running so very smooth. I took the time to post these details because, it is so easy to do on a single cylinder using this application, I want others to benifit,    

35
Listeroid Engines / Re: Porting a Lister cylinder head and intake
« on: November 04, 2013, 05:15:02 AM »
THOB,

Dam, you are correct, double all results by factor of two. You dont want to fly on an airplane I might build.

36
Listeroid Engines / Re: Porting a Lister cylinder head and intake
« on: November 03, 2013, 04:53:12 AM »
Made some quick calculations which reflect a typical 6/1 is only sucking in 16.5 cubic feet of air per minute which is not a lot. So I have to wonder how much is there to gain from removing the surface restrictions discussed in porting near the airfilter. To me, the greatest restriction in the air flow would be the intake valve opening area and would present the greatest opportunity for improvement. Improving airflow in this narrow area seems reasonable. ORIGINAL POST HAD MATH ERROR WHICH WAS CORRECTED BELOW.

Diameter   4.5   in   Bore   D
radius   2.3   in   Bore   r
Stroke   5.5   in   Stroke   h
            
Volume   87.5   in^3   V=pi*(r^2)*h   
            
Assume   650   rpm      
   5.4   intake strokes per second      
   473.8   in^3 per second      
   0.28   ft^3 per sec      
   16.5   ft^3 per minute      

When I calculated this for my 20/2 GTC it comes out to be 48 cubic feet minute through the airfilter and intake pipes which is more significant.

Diameter   4.75   in   Bore   D
radius   2.38   in   Bore   r
Stroke   5.5   in   Stroke   h
            
Volume   97.5   in^3   V=pi*(r^2)*h   
            
Assume   850   rpm      
   7.0   intake strokes per second per cyclinder
   1381         in^3 per second         
    0.81          ft^3 per sec      
   48         ft^3 per minute      

37
Listeroid Engines / Re: Flywheel balancing question
« on: October 18, 2013, 06:37:05 AM »
I recommend a two-step process. First remove both flywheels: Construct a basic device out of scrap 2 X 4 piece about two feet above the flywheel laying flat on the ground. Through the center of the hub, you will run a cable or rope down from the 2 X 4 support above. If carefully positioned in the center of the hub, the heavier side will lean down. Apply stick on wheel weights to the opposite side until the suspended flywheel is level. The most difficult part is constructing a plug in the center of the flywheel hub to precisely center the lifting cable. CUJET had a cone which we drilled a hole through the center and threated the cable through. I think Home Depot sells wooded cones in the wood finishing section, if not, make something out of scrap metal.

Step one will get you very close assuming the internal balance weights are correct. Now for step two. Install your flywheels back on the engine and see how they run. Perhaps you are done. If not, do you own an iPhone? Then down load from the apple store this $4.99 application.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/vibration/id301097580

This program uses the iPhone internal accelerometer which runs at 100 Hz. You can measure and graph vibration in the X, Y, & Z planes. It does a really good job on low frequency vibration and only costs $5. You are only interested in the X & Y planes on a single cylinder. Check the graph, how much vertical vibration / acceleration do you have? Remember there is a power pulse on the piston. Try adding weight at a point on the flywheel. Did the vibration get worst or better? Repeat until you fine tune the rotation. You will never get it perfect, but you can measure your progress with each trial run and engine start. Keep a log book, divide you flywheels into at least six (6) 60 degree slices, twelve would be better, masking tape works well, and number them, 0, 30, 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 210, 240, 270, 300, 330, 360. This is a time consuming process to fine tune your flywheels. You might get satisfactory results after step one, but if you need to go to step two, you can apply a lot of lip stick to a pig as I have done.

38
Listeroid Engines / Re: Governor woes
« on: September 27, 2013, 07:06:57 AM »
Home Depot stock number is 759 541 and comes in a pack of two different size springs for a total of four. The sizes are: 7/16 in X 2 inch X .062 in with a safe working load of 18 lbs - these are the two you don't want to use. In the same package is: 9/16 in X 3 in X .054 in with a safe working load of 9.55 lbs - this one worked well for me out of the box. So for a couple dollars you may have a repeatable solution. Remember, where the India guy decided to drill the stud hole for the other end of the spring is probably random but I hope it will be close.

39
Listeroid Engines / Re: Governor woes
« on: September 25, 2013, 10:25:34 PM »
This simple governor modification coupled with trying a few different springs, has gotten me to 1.5 Hz total shift from zero to 4,400 watts. The spring was a cheap Home depot off the shelf item. here is a photo of the modification:

http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=9456

I left the old spring in the photo for comparison.

40
Listeroid Engines / Re: Governor woes
« on: September 20, 2013, 05:29:19 AM »
I also have a metro 6/1 which have setup to run at 800 rpm because I need 4,400 watts out of the power unit. In my analysis I calculated no more than 60 mph rim speed on the flywheel, I urge you to calculate yours. With my carefully examined flywheels I drive them at 800 rpm which, is as I recall, 56 mph. This is, in the opinion of most, the absolute maximum you should ever drive an India flywheel, probably too risky even at 800 rpm, but anything higher on a spoked flywheel is too dangerous. I respectfully offer this opinion as a Metro owner driving mine at over speed at 800 rpm.

41
Lister Based Generators / Re: Running Powerline 10/1 at 650RPM
« on: September 17, 2013, 03:35:55 AM »
I also run my GTC 20/2 at 850 rpm and it runs well as the lower speed.

42
Engines / Re: Custom ground high performance camshaft
« on: September 12, 2013, 07:37:24 AM »
There is an excellent thread on the sister forum at: http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=913.0

The comments about a machine shop in Tenn working on a custom ground camshaft for about $300 got my attention, but, as far as I know this has not come to pass yet. Can anyone provide an update or a source?

Bruce

43
Here is one of several threads on fitting a gibb key.

http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=1611.0

Looks the preferred taper is 1:100

44
Listeroid Engines / Re: Porting a Lister cylinder head and intake
« on: September 05, 2013, 08:23:32 AM »
Cujet (Chris) look at all the shit you started by posting this undiscovered topic years ago.

45
Listeroid Engines / Re: Yes, my twin ran backwards today! What fun
« on: August 17, 2013, 08:09:30 AM »
Chris, buy the starter in the video. You cant beat the price and you dont have to build your own.

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