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Messages - mikenash

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31
OK.  Memory lane here

I grew up driving old British machinery made in the '40s & '50s - and your pushrod stories remind me . . . .

Some of those Luton-built Vauxhall/Bedford engines were designed to have the valve clearances set when they were hot and running.  They were screw-and-locknut rockers.  IIRC there were .007 and .013 valve clearances and Vauxhall/Bedford supplied feeler gauge strips in these two sizes in the form of flexible metal strips maybe a half-inch in width and a couple of feet in length.

The process wasn't complex as there were no "find TDC" issues with the engine running.  You simply loosened off the locknut and screw a tad and inserted the end of the feeler strip.  As the pushrod moved it would pinch-and-release-pinch, obviously.  As you adjusted the screw, you could feel - by pulling the strip back and forwards a bit - when the "pinch" was just right.  Tighten the locknut at that and move onto the next . . . .

As you might imagine, a certain technique was required - but not as difficult as it sounds.

However, three hands were needed:  One to hold the spanner on the locknut.  One to hold the screwdriver that wanted to keep bouncing off the top of the adjuster screw.  One to hold the feeler gauge strip.  Bear in mind, also, the engine is running sans rocker cover that this point - albeit at a slow idle - so there's black oil everywhere.

The approved technique is:  One hand on the screwdriver.  one hand on the spanner.  Hold the feeler strip between the teeth (also had the benenfit of giving you a good, close, look at what you were doing) and move the head back and forwards a little to "feel the pinch".

When the end of the feeler gauge strip got a bit too battered - just nip it off and move on

Stories of glasses spattered with engine oil are legion.  Better, though, is the description of the oil as it migrated up the feeler gauge strip (oil was thin, black shit in those days), how it tasted, and the stains it left in one's beard as it dripped off the edges of the bottom lip . . . .

Those were the days . . .

32
Generators / Re: Welding off the Lister
« on: August 14, 2022, 06:59:20 AM »
I couldn`t agree more, a backup generator that won`t start is completely useless! Do as Mike says and it won`t let you down.
Some generators have a starter motor with a battery, buy yourself a trickle charger from your local hardware store and keep the battery fully charged at all times. My old Lister ST2 SOM had two very very cheap batteries with an isolator switch and a pair of 800 MA electronic trickle chargers. The batteries were still as good as new after 6 years.
I am not sure about emptying the carby, it sounds like a good idea but a monthly run is probably a better idea as it clears the old fuel in the float chamber and also distributes oil around your engine preventing corrosion and killing any vermin or insects that have decided to make your genny their home.
I hate to raise the issue of Easy Start, Start Ya Bastard in Australia. I do not recommend it`s use as engines that won`t start on regular fuel have a problem that needs fixing, they can also become addicted to it and won`t start without it. Never the less I always keep a can in the shed, it has got me out of the sh1t on a few occasions.

Bob


Bob I had one at work that flummoxed me - just would not start:

Cranked, but sounded odd.  Had clean gas,  Plenty of oil.  Good spark

Turned out Mason Bees had made a home deep inside the exhaust & blocked it up

There - something else to look out for lol

33
Generators / Re: Welding off the Lister
« on: August 13, 2022, 07:08:40 AM »
Hi Stef and everyone else. After the fires and more recent floods in Northern New South Wales, I fixed dozens of petrol generators that were donated by the public to aid with the recovery efforts. Most of them had done little or no work. None of them would start. Mostly this was due to them being stored full of fuel that evaporated leaving them full of red/brown sludge that clogged the carburetors and float valves. Some of them had obviously had E10 fuel in them which absorbs moisture from the environment causing corrosion.
Very simple to fix: Flush fuel tank, strip and clean carby, check air filter for spiders/ants, check/adjust tappet clearance, clean sparkplug.
A lot of these Honda/Chonda engines have a low oil level cut off switch so check oil condition/level. After that they should fire up after a couple of pulls.
I still have half a dozen such generators and water pumps that I haven`t got around to fixing yet, I would send you one but I suspect the shipping costs would be prohibitive.
Taz is looking good, My new shed has been ordered and is being delivered at the end of the month. The ground workers and concreters are starting work next week. I will post pics and info once they start.

Exciting times  :)
Bob

+1 on that

Couldn't tell you how many generators I have bought for a quarter of heir original purchase price "Used once or twice.  Sat in the shed.  Now won't start"  Nine times out of ten it's just old gas.  So:

If you have bought a generator as an emergency backup supply - it's going to be nothing more than an expensive, petrol-smelling tin box if it won't start when needed.  rules are simple:

Keep the tank full of good-quality clean gas

Put fuel-stabiliser "Stabil" or similar in the tank

Give it a good run once a month

Learn how to open the carb-bowl drain with a 10mm spanner in case it does sit a bit too long and the gas in the bowl gets stale

People say you should turn off the gas and let it run dry?  I dunno.  No need if you do the above imho

34
Generators / Re: Welding off the Lister
« on: August 11, 2022, 08:18:08 PM »
Hi Mike

That's not dear, in NZ dollars

Try this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284904772551?hash=item4255a5d3c7:g:D64AAOSwHPVipc2B

In GB pounds!

Cheers
Stef

OK Stef.  I'll see you your Series one and raise you this seriously overpriced liability of a '91 Rangie lol

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/land-rover/range-rover/listing/3473215546?bof=XYgLVtzC


35
Generators / Re: Welding off the Lister
« on: August 11, 2022, 01:14:54 AM »
Hi All

Bob

Hope all is well down in Taz....

Thanks for the encouraging noises, I'll drag some more kit up here and give it a go, I'm hoping to put a five speed gearbox in my 88" Land Rover next month and that'll involve knocking up new engine mounts as the later box is around 150mm longer, I should have bought a bigger truck!

Mike

That's a good shout, a quick scout around here and they seem a bit dear, still I'm going to go back to the UK at the end of the month, who knows what I can find at the Great Dorset Steam fair...

Cheers
Stef


Stef you could always sell the Landie & retire . . .

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/land-rover/other/listing/3683250737?bof=vLrQ2Oc0

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/land-rover/other/listing/3572666400?bof=vLrQ2Oc0

:)

36
Generators / Re: Welding off the Lister
« on: August 10, 2022, 08:01:24 PM »
FWIW as someone who has an off-grid property, and a few Lister, and who does quite a bit of welding . . . this is my opinion

(and as others have commented)  the load of striking an arc, the possibility of damage, the lack of portability with the Lister, the value of the gen head you may burn out - taking all these things into consideration, about six years ago I paid $450 for a 9kVa Chinese petrol generator.  It runs the welder easily, it's portable-ish.  It is unfailingly reliable (although it does have an EPA-complicated carb design - thanks Uncle Sam) and it costs nothing to run for an hour here or there

I reckon that's a safer and better option.  The other day I loaded up the Markon head on the Lister (doing something unrelated to this) and, listening to the engine note change and the revs "droop" a bit, I felt I was doing both the Lister and the Markon a dis-service

I have played with those little Chinese Honda-clone "Chonda" generators almost daily in my work for the last decade (I own six or eight personally, and we have another six or seven in the depot here) and I have a lot of respect for their cheapness and their ability to do a job.  Hand on heart I can say I have never seen one "blow" up  - although they will if abused, of course

They are much-derided as "Screamers" in some groups - but really they're just a machine to do a job.  If you understand them and are comfortable with basic maintenance - then they are a good option.  It's easy to move one around the place in the boot of the station wagon and, when it's where I want it,  I park the wagon in front of it so it cuts out a chunk of the noise

You do need about 7/8000 watts for the welder to run effortlessly and for the generator to have a long life

Just my $0.02

37
Everything else / Re: Heat sand to 400F
« on: August 02, 2022, 08:02:15 PM »
Thanks mikenash,

"Certainly if you extended that pipe by a couple of metres and put fins all over it and ran it through a bathtub full of sand . . ."

I think if I could build a reliable, small, safe waste oil burner, I would not need the sand at all.
Just run the burner constantly along with some safety shutdowns which cut the fuel supply if needed.
I do agree that  an oil burner/heater is the most efficient way to heat with used oil.
Also needed would be a method of rapid/easy cleaning since waste oil leaves a lot of ash and crap in the burn pot.

Does the burner in that picture have a forced air supply or is it self-drafted?

Hi Veggie

I'm keen on "keep it simple" so the burner has no fan.  Really, of course, the flue - which is about four metres long - is the secret to a good draft as you will understand

It's a lousy pic, sorry

The burn pot is just that, a stainless steel, copper-bottomed pot I bought for $2 at the Salvation Army store.  There is a couple of lugs sticking out above it, and a bit of 50X10 flat underneath it with a couple of 13mm holes that match the holes in the two lugs.  There are two shorth lengths of M12 galv rod & some nuts that run from the lugs down to the flat and hold the pot in place. 

The pot is perfectly-sized to fit into the O-ring groove of a NB200mm profile steel flange - so, as it sits up into the groove, it makes quite a good "seal" and is positively located.

I guess it takes about 2 minutes to take it off to clean (loosen the nuts, drop it down, slide it out).  Beneath the whole thing there's a giant stainless bowl about 500mm in diameter and about 200mm deep that just slides in and out.  It's both a "bund" and an easy way to catch any mess when it gets a scrape-out/clean.  I paid $15 for it on FB marketplace

There's no denying they are dirty, messy things

I have a couple of boxes of throw-away gloves and a few cans of brakleen - and I figure they're just the cost of running the thing.  Maybe $10 a month?

I'm fortunate in that I have a source of a great deal of "used" oil which is effectively "new" oil contaminated with metal particles but no combustion byproducts or random automotive fluids.  It's an industrial gear oil from a specific application.  If I let it stand in 200 litre drums for a year or two - then just the bottom few inches is sludge and the rest is effectively "clean" - so my fuel is 100% consistent, free, readily-available and as "clean" as it can be

FWIW I'm just making some changes to the design to improve the "cook-top" function of the top of the burner and to increase the size of the reservior to maybe two or three litres.  But I'd never leave it burning unattended

Happy to help with details or drawings if needed.  Cheers

38
Everything else / Re: Heat sand to 400F
« on: July 30, 2022, 12:01:51 AM »
I still believe it is possible to build a safe waste oil burner. Many years ago I installed and commissioned a series of steam boilers that ran on diesel or kerosene. They were used to heat huge vats of pig swill that was then pumped to 5000 hungry pigs. These boilers had a fuel tank with a spring loaded shut off valve outside of the building. The valve was opened by a stainless steel wire with a very low melting point metal coupling in it. In the event of excessive heat/fire the coupling would melt and the valve would automatically close.

A second option would be to try and find a vaporizing oil burner out of an oil fired Aga, these are tricky to set up but once adjusted are pretty bomb proof, I ran one for years on all sorts of oils.

Failing all that you could contact Lord Volderglort and ask him how to make an oil burner that will heat a large mass of concrete or sand very quickly, so you can fire it up for 15 to 30 minutes while you are present and then turn it off. The thermal mass should keep you warm for a few hours and then you can fire it up again.
Bob

See pic?  Crap image but the salient bit is the pipe that's glowing red hot.  It's either 150mm or 125mm (I forget which) and it's a mild-steel weld-bend with a 5mm or 6mm wall.  The burner heats it from ambient (maybe 6 degrees C in this case) to glowing in about ten mins using oil at the rate of maybe a couple of litres an hour?  It's about as safe as you're gonna get for a drip-feed with no moving parts that can be used domestically

I can send pics/details/plans if needed

Certainly if you extended that pipe by a couple of metres and put fins all over it and ran it through a bathtub full of sand . . .

Cheers

39
Everything else / Re: Heat sand to 400F
« on: July 26, 2022, 07:38:55 PM »
"I`d be going for a thermal mass chimney system and smudge pot oil burner, but what do I know? Good luck and keep us informed. Bob"

Hi Bob,
The biggest issue I have with used oil heaters is that everything I have seen on youtube has been cobbled together with metal scraps. The units glow cherry red when running, and don't have any form of safety shutdown incorporated. They look fine as experiments, but running one in a garage every day (winters) in a residential area looks risky.
I would love to build a small (20K BTU) oil burner system if I could find a reliable and safe design to follow.
If anyone knows a good forum on this subject, or a good design example, please post it.

I know a little bit about drip-feed and other low-tech oil-burners.  I have made six or eight prototypes and currently have one running.  My short conclusion is that they aren't safe for unattended running and that the only reason I'm happy to have one running in my shed is that it has a small oil reservoir and sort of a "bund" (four or five times the capacity of the reservoir) on top of a concrete hearth just in case it has a brain fart & drops a half-litre of hot oil out the bottom

If you search online - there are good ones using dosing pumps metered by things like little arduinos, with thermostats, oil shut-off solenoids and the like.  BUT, I haven't seen one like this that runs reliably that doesn't use an electric fan . . .

In short I haven't seen one that is good and safe that doesn't have several moving parts

Good luck

40
Red Stone Engines / Re: 3 Redstones
« on: July 26, 2022, 06:25:03 AM »
Will watch with interest :)

41
Everything else / Re: Heat sand to 400F
« on: July 21, 2022, 07:39:21 PM »
Substances such as compacted sand, stone etc will have known properties - the rate at which they will take up heat; and the rate at which that heat will bleed out into cold air - dependant on temperature, ratio of exposed surface area to bulk - and so on . . .

I mention this because a technique widely used here is stone/concrete walls which are exposed to/heated by sunlight during the day - and which slowly release that stored heat at night.  Near me there's a community centre which has massive concrete heat sinks at the back of north-facing (southern hemisphere) rooms which do just that.  They're warm to the touch during the day - and still warm to the touch in the middle of the night.

Obviously it's a new build with good insulation and triple-glazing etc etc - but the point I make is that this is a case of a BIG mass being raised just a few degrees above ambient, then slowly yielding its stored energy back into the room.  SIZE/MASS is the key here.  because it's big - the temperature differential can be small but still work well

Maybe a LOT of sand . . .

42
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Electric starter for 6/1
« on: July 14, 2022, 07:03:27 AM »
I'm getting worried MIke,

I think we may be psychic twins.......

Cheers
Stef

No danger there, Stef.  I've never been to France . . .

But in 2007 I spent a chunk of time in a small, parochial village in Tuscany - up the end of a dirt-track road up into the mountains - called Eque Terme (warm water), so perhaps I can relate :)

43
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Electric starter for 6/1
« on: July 13, 2022, 07:41:36 PM »
mikenash

That starter should work well.
What is the intended use for the Listeroid
Are you going off-grid?

Hi Veg, I guess so.  "Going off grid" kinda sounds like some virtue-signalling, green-wash process.  But the reality is I live somewhere with lots of sunshine hours, I live largely on my own so can please myself how I live (except when the grandkids are there, of course).  I have good skills with woodstoves, basic solar hot water and basic photovoltaic; and I'd prefer not to pay a power bill.

I have two sections and there is mains cable to the next-door one, and I could get it connected - perhaps when I get old & feeble?

But right now I get on fine with solar/woodstove/gas hob/oil-burner

When I retire to that spot full-time - perhaps in a couple of years, as I'm 65 - I'll upgrade the photovoltaic to maybe 1500W and a big LiFePo4

I'm aware that I'm not gonna be a $$-rich retiree.  So if I can avoid paying a power bill - then I will

Cheers

44
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Electric starter for 6/1
« on: July 13, 2022, 07:35:22 PM »
Hi Mike, many years ago I had a lovely cottage with two wetback fireplaces and an oil fired heating boiler. Could not get them to work as one properly on thermosyphon, to heat hot water and wet radiators around the house. Eventually I talked to a heating expert who explained it to me.
If you are only heating one circuit (hot water/wet radiators) no problem thermosyphon works well. Beyond that you need to fit a circulation pump with a pipe thermostat to turn it on and off as the wetback temperature rises.
If you are running multiple wetbacks/boilers you require a central manifold, something like a Dursley Neutralize. This will ensure that your heat goes where you want it rather than circulating through and heating the cold wetbacks in an unlit boiler or fire.

Bob

Hey Bob, yes, I've got that

I've built three houses now, and have settled on the idea that "less is more" - especially for someone like me who lives on his own.  So my current, half-finished shed/house/workshop is only 72 square metres and almost completely open-plan with a woodstove in the middle.  So radiant heat is fine for heating the building, and the woodstove has a cook-top & oven as well.  The wetback just has to make hot water for the hot water cylinder - and in summer I have solar hot water.  So no requirement for radiators, pumps etc - I don't need or want that level of complexity

Cheers

45
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Electric starter for 6/1
« on: July 13, 2022, 07:06:03 AM »
Hey Stef talking about your Rayburn reminds me . . . I have had woodstoves with wetbacks in the last four houses.  Each one has been more heavily modified than the last to the point where with this place (it's more of a shed/workshop/house than just a "house") I built my own from scratch - as much as for any other reason to get the wetback "right" so that the thermosiphon produces enough hot water - but not so much that the cylinder is always boiling . . .

We have talked before about my oil-burner attachment to the front of the stove - it's a pragmatic move . . . .I have access to almost unlimited oil and I need heating, so . . . and you have (quite rightly) laughed at its crudity

Since my last trip up there I have been tinkering with the burn pot - chasing efficiency and "clean, hot burn".  I gave it a bit of a run last weekend and it's interesting how the column of hot air/flame heats the water via the wetback - an unexpected bonus

Before I turned it off at bedtime, I gave it a two or three minute burst with all the air intakes wide open ("full throttle")  and that (sorry, very low quality) pic is the result.  It took about three minutes for that steel bend (150mm diameter, 5mm wall) to be glowing bright red and too hot to get anywhere near.  It's ugly but well worth playing with

If I can get it heating water via the wetback efficiently then even better

The wetback is a single flat section - effectively the "back"of the firebox about 500mm wide by 250mm high by 60mm deep - homebuilt out of welded 6mm stainless plate with 50mm (2") wetback fittings and 40mm copper pipe between wetback & cylinder

Cheers

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