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Messages - Dieselsmoker

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1
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: May 11, 2019, 10:08:57 PM »
Thanks guys. I have learned a lot from you and other people on the net - so I share what I do to pass my ideas forward. It might just plant a seed with someone towards solving their problem.

Glort - I like the way you think. I have thought about the idea to make the trolley power itself many times, but never really applied my mind to it. The setup is heavy and I can manouvre it on hard surfaces, but it is totally impossable to drag it by hand over grass, ramps or uneven surfaces. I'll keep my eyes open for parts...

To elaborate a bit on the bracket:
I toyed with many ideas and came up with this design -

Construction of bracket:


Hooked onto the frame:



Short Video showing how easy it is to mount and remove the winch:
https://youtu.be/N10StbFfjTg



2
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: May 09, 2019, 11:30:26 AM »
I think I said this before: Rome was not build in a day and this Restoration was not done in 3 years  :D

The engine continues to run like a dream and remains a great source of entertainment. I had it to two shows recently and it draws a lot of attention. Especially elder people who grew up on farms quickly come closer when they hear the Lister start. You then see those eyes staring at the flywheels just taking in the sight with the other senses recording the sounds and the smells that awaken distant memories... Then the tales start pouring out of how they fell asleep at night with that sound in the distant night or how a crank handle wacked them when they had to start up on a cold winter morning  :laugh: Great fun and a lot of interesting people that came along with this hobby.

The one major pain I had was loading and unloading this beast. Everything worked very well appart from working that darn lever block to pull the engine up the ramps. To make things worse, the chain is too short to pull it up in one go, so it had to be done in two stages. Not nice to start and end a fun day by breaking a sweat!

Picture taken at the last show I was at in March. (Same show we attended a year ago)


Gazebo for shade, Lister powered kettle for fresh coffee. Lister powered electric grille provided lunch.
Always nice to make things work to show off that it actually works!


HOW I USED TO DO IT
Setting up the ramps and blocks under the trailer.


This pole fits inside the trailer hook and keeps the trailer at the disired angle. When the engine is loaded, the balance point is slightly in front of the axle, but not too heavy to lower the trailer by hand. The genset can go on the trailer either way, but balances better with the tank-side towards the front of the trailer.


The chain is extended with a belt sling connected to the trolley. The sling on the left will be used to hold the load when the trolley is halfway up the ramps when the lever block extension is removed before pulling the second stage to the top.







ENTER ELECTRIC WINCH!


Cable is long enough to pull it on the trailer from the far side of the yard.


Walking up the trailer at the push of a button  :)
(Button in one hand, cold beer in the other hand)


Watch the short video of the winch in action:
Can't wait to try it ou at the next show!
https://youtu.be/e4ssL7CqQwg

3
Very nice! Like those VA engines. Pity they are very hard to come by... wonder why they were not as popular as the water cooled engines?

4
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: October 04, 2018, 07:45:43 AM »
Wow!

Definitely one of the most beautifully finished, best detailed and well equipped setups I have seen. And runs like a swiss watch as well.

BIG credit to you mate.
Thank you for the kind words. 

Now that one is finished and you have nothing else to do, Can I send you my roid and a Cheque to give it the same once over??
I'd be proud as punch to have something like that in my shed..... or lounge room more likely!
We can talk business if you have LOTS of patience!  :D
This job took only took me 5 years to get here and I've already got more ideas... It really shouldn't take that long but in between life and other projects this build just dragged on forever - but it was well worth it in the end. I hinted at pulling it into the lounge but I was not take seriously. I never got a definate "no", so maybe...  ;)

+1 Glort, what a beautiful restoration, a credit to you and your skills. Hope mine turns out as nice.

I managed to source Oilite bushes for my rockers, right internal/external dimensions but 1/8" too long, not a difficult fix.

Bob
Thank you!
Patience and perseverance and you'll definitaly get there! few people really appreciate the amount of effort it takes to build something like this. 

Oilite is just perfect for this application. Not too easy to come by and cost about the same as gold by weight!   

That's one gorgeous restoration, Dieselsmoker!

Thanks!

Incredible, super only the video should last 30 min longer. Really amazing.
Thanks!
I'll make you a special video - or loop this one  :D

5
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: October 03, 2018, 01:38:18 PM »
It's been a while since I had a chance to do some more work on the engine. I blame the winter for that. I just do what I HAVE TO do and hibernate the rest of the time. The weather has warmed up nicely now and we expect probably the last cold front to pass us in the next two days. It never snows here - we just get the cold!

The only thing I totally skipped during the restoration was the rocker assembly. I just cleaned it up and put it back when I assembled the engine to get it running. The wear in the bushes was quite bad and there was a distinct clicking sound coming from the valve gear.
 

As I did with the Camshaft, I turned the worn Rocker shaft ends down to get them round again. The centre portion where it locates in the block is still standard.


There were steel bushes in the rockers... I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be brass!
I opted to make the replacement bushes from VESCONITE. Pretty amazing stuff. This is used everywhere to replace brass bushes and brass wear plates in machinery. Easy to machine, extremely durable and dead cheap compared to brass.

I had these two pieces in my off-cut bin waiting to do something great


New bush machined and in the rocker ready to do some work


There is now zero slop in the rocker assembly and it most definately runs quiter. It took me all of 2 hours to get done and I have no idea why I haven't done this sooner!

A reminder of what the panel looked like when I last worked on it:


I gathered my last energy, stripped out all the guts, cut two more windows in the door and painted it the prettiest colour I could think off.  ;)



Next I got myself a little to-me-from-me for my b-day and finished off the panel with a brand new frequency- and hour meter. It cost an arm and leg but well worth it. Appart from added functionality it finishes the panel off nicely.


The new face:


A little video to show what it looks like now:
It runs a whole lot better with the new gadgets installed  :D
https://youtu.be/C5JExqserFk



6
Everything else / Re: You've Just Got To Love Those ICEs
« on: June 25, 2018, 09:40:08 AM »
I frequent these videos all the time. Beautiful machines!

This Merlin engine is on display at the Johannesburg military museum. The detail and finishing is next level - especially taking into consideration that most of the engines where mass produced during the war.  English journeymen where (are?) known to be real proud workers. This one is dressed up for show, but it's still the same thing they used in hundreds of Spitfires to scare thor with  :D

7
Engines / Re: Turned out that my Lister wasn't ST2 :-)
« on: June 13, 2018, 06:56:17 PM »
I thought I'll quickly scan this with my phone..  ::)
Turned out to be quite a time-consuming affair. I have other manuals I'll scan on a rainy day to share.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/dqhkkgizzei7xy4/LR1_LR2_SR1_2%263Cyl.pdf

8
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Lister L Questions
« on: June 08, 2018, 03:52:32 PM »
Nice engine!
I like that top water hose. I've been on the lookout for that type of hose but no luck so far.   

9
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: June 07, 2018, 08:21:25 PM »
I look at it like this, if you put a bit of oil or 2 stroke in your engine and it dosen't work, so what? You have lost nothing.  IF it does work, even to offset one IP or injector failure or rebuild, you are a long way ahead.

Smoke never worries me in the least as long as it's from a 2 stroke or a Diesel.  In this case some 2 stroke may reduce the smoke levels as it has additives to do that. It could also help with carbon buildup as it has additives designed to prevent that as well.

I just don't feel comfortable these days with straight Diesel. Adding some oil I think is very worth while and lets me feel more comfortable about the well being of my Diesels.

I also can't see any harm done by adding some 2SO to the Diesel. Even some engine oil will do just as well but that will definitely cause some smoking if overdosed. I had a VW Jetta 1.8 with Mechanical Bosch K-Jetronic CIS (Continuous injection system). I always added 2SO to the petrol. Never had a fuel pump failure again. The system had an accumilator to keep the whole system under pressure when switched off. If an injector started leaking the car would basically be flooded when starting. 2SO in the tank fixed those injectors and kept them happy. Proven over and over. With this experience nobody has to convince me to dump oil in the fuel!

We never had Biodiesel sold commercially here. Totally unheard of - until word did the rounds years ago that a massive Biodiesel plant was to be build. The huge hype around business oportunities and potential incomes got suddenly extinguished when the whole thing turned out to be a scam attempting to lure investors in... why do these people not invest this energy into something productive I'll never understand. I wonder if it ever would have worked anyway - the greenies where up in arms about the use of maize for fuel when hunger stares so many in the face --- never saw the upped maize production anayway...

The only Diesel quality problems was when Power Paraffin (Kerosene) was still produced by the local refineries. Some dodgy filling stations diluted the Diesel with this and caused lots of damage to pumps and injectors. When sticking to the busy branded filling stations this was however never an issue.


10
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: June 06, 2018, 02:47:21 PM »
Some more experimentation results:
I have not yet had a chance to have the injector checked by a service centre for a second oppinion - so that and also the probability of the rings not fully seated are still factors not eliminated. What I did however find is the effect of Diesel sulphur content. Currently we have a choice between 10ppm, 50ppm and 500ppm. I tried all 3 and it seems like the 500ppm makes more smoke - but I'll need more playtime to reach a proven conclusion. What are your experiences with this? Also - the effect of sulphur content related to fuel lubricity, cetane- and calorific values seems as much debated and opinionated as any technical topic out there... so far my research has just helped me reach my own opinion! I am not too worried about fuel combustion performance - I am more interested to know what is best for the pump and injector. 30+ years ago Diesel probably had a sulphur ppm count of 3-5000!?  Should these older injection systems not be fed with some 2 stroke oil in the mix? Or is sulphur lubrication properties replaced well enough with alternative additives?

None of this is probably applicable to a CS as it won't even notice the difference. Only these modern DPF and AdBlue DEF systems would mind if they where fed some crude fuel  ::) but the theory behind it all is still interesting.

11
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: May 23, 2018, 08:33:53 AM »
Your smoke n the video seems to look a bit blueish- so I'd bet on ring seating or excess splash oil.

I'm also a  MB 300D owner/driver.  Matching pop pressure/pattern for it is quite helpful to engine smoothness.  A DIY grease gun pop tester worked well for me.

I doubt if it is oil burning - but I can't eliminate the possibility totally with the low engine hours.

My dad used to have a '79 300D natural aspirated - drove it for years but he let it go 18 years ago and replaced it with a C180. Still remeber that car very well.. He always had the injectors, timing and tappets perfect but it took a bit of effort to maintain. The petrol burners are just so much easier to live with.

Thanks to the Merc I have a proper injector tester. I would love to see how your make-do tester works.

They never brought them out here so mine being NA was woefully slow, even to the point of being dangerous I felt.   

South Africa also missed out on the W123 turbo models... so I know exactly what you are talking about - and to think we thought the 300 was fast compared to the 240 we had!!  :D

The W124 6 cylinder was turbocharged. One saw very few of them on the roads. Always wondered if they were any good? The W123s are very comfortable rides and totally indestructable. The 240D is still with the people who bought it from my dad (30 years ago??). The engine was redone at some point, but it's got hundreds of thousands of farmroad kilometres on it. Just for interest sake - The 240D is basically identical to the 300D with basically just one cylinder chopped off.

12
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: May 22, 2018, 10:21:28 AM »

You have done a brilliant job on your machine!
It looks awesome and runs beautifully smooth as well.

The injector on my machine fires in a circle pattern. The fuel comes out from every side, not firing like yours appears to be to one side. I agree with Bruce, I can tell more about how they are firing from the sound, at least on my china diesel which I have had more hands on time with.  Had to pull that apart a few times due to not running it for over a year and the veg fuel gumming it up. No big deal to clean it but as soon as I wind it up I can tell by the sound if it's right or not.

Given the time and incredible effort you have put into the thing, a few more bucks on a new injector may be worth while if you can't clean this one.
The ones on my china diesels come apart easily and there isn't much to them but they are easy to clean out stuff you can't see but just won't clean themselves with any sort of solvent when running.

Unscrewing the muffler may give you an indication as to how the engine is running. If it's wet in the exhaust port at all something's not quite right.
May not be bedded in with the rings or it may be the injector but I would eliminate the easiest possibility first and then give it some time and see how you go.

Would be best at this stage to always run with a load on the thing. If you have electric hot water heating you could always hook it up to that to give it a load to work from and get some benefit out of it.

Thanks Glort. The encouragement and advice gained from this forum helped a lot to get the job done!

The injector should spray to the side for the stream to align with the hole in the head. Other types of injectors do have a conical spray pattern where the tip is exposed directly to the combustion chamber. On page 12 of this thread there are some books that explains this - but you probably know this already. Are you using the conical spray tip in the Lister? If yes it will make finding a replacement tip so much easier!

I'll take the muffler off and check the port. The muffler definately catches some unburnt fuel or oil when the engine ran for a while with no load. When connecting a load there is clearly a lot more smoke for a few minutes before it improves. Usually when I let it run I connect it to the house so, like you said, it does something productive and not just burn the fuel for nothing.

13
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: May 22, 2018, 10:03:50 AM »
Bravo on your show debut. Your restoration is most impressive.

I don't recall your engine's break in status, but it often takes 100+ hours under load for a CS to fully seat the rings.  My exhaust looked even better after 200 hrs. The exhaust should be nearly clear when warmed up under moderate load.

It's hard to judge your spray pattern from a photo so close to the nozzle but it might be too spray/jet like and not like a "burst of fog".  (May not be atomizing well.) I'd swap in a new nozzle or injector and see if that helps.  Check it visually first so you can see what a good one looks like.  Your injector may be fine; I can tell more from the sound and mist from it hitting in a coffee can since that's what I use with my DIY grease gun pop tester.  A jet is not ideal. A bit of carbon in the nozzle can cause a jet, as can poor pintle fit, in my limited experience.

Thankyou!
I have no idea how many hours are on the engine... I have that hour meter on my wishlist  ::)

It is possible that the engine is not fully run in, but I am not totally happy with the spray pattern... I have a Mercedes 300D nozzle I'll try as reference (if it fits in the injector holder) - never thought of doing that while I had everything set up! 

What is the best way to determine the optimum opening pressure? Surely things like atmospheric pressure will have an influence? Or is it not too critical as long as it is near the 90 atm mark the manual recommends? I just checked something: 90 atm = 93 Kgf/sq cm so my setting is pretty accurate. I did play with the adjustment screw while the engine was running and a full turn either way had very little noticible effect on smoke or power output. (I'm not sure how much one turn affects opening pressure - I'll check when I take the injector out again)

The injector is as clean as I could get it - but I won't be surprised if the hole is not perfect as the injector tip is pitted by corrosion. I'll take it to a Diesel service centre who has the tools to clean this out properly.

14
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: May 21, 2018, 08:18:09 PM »
Hi Listerines!
I took the Lister to its first show a couple of weeks ago. Pity I only learned about it the day before so I was not prepared at all. It was just load and go! It was close to where I live from so I pulled the trailer with the Lister on to the show with the John Deere. There is a bigger show coming up in September I'll prepare better for. I'll think of something nice for it to do and also make a nice sign for it with some specs and pictures maybe. 

It was a car-show organized for a church charity that was held at the local Primary School. I stole a lot of limelight with the only stationary engine and tractor there  :D The Lister drew a lot of attention - especially with the older generation that grew up with these around on the farms.



The John Deere 40 was a hit with kids. They climbed on one after the other to pose for pictures on it.  8)


My son demonstrating the PTO pulley:


On Sunday we FINALLY had a power cut for two hours and I could drag out the Lister to do some REAL work.
https://youtu.be/2o6lEUi1cbY


I have a question about the exhaust of the Lister. If it's nicely warmed up and under load - how clean should the exhaust be? It always smokes a bit - never totally clean. It definitely gets better when nicely warmed up so this is not entirely as bad as it is when worked for 2 or more hours. Check this short video: https://youtu.be/zWEAvepyJRM?list=UUhqCC4-8MJq7uqgqdUSmlzg

I upped the injector opening pressure somewhat:


The spray is not perfectly atomized... hoe does this look? (It took a couple of tries with the cellphone camera to catch the image)

15
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Another 6/1 Restoration
« on: January 06, 2018, 08:30:44 PM »
This update is waaaaay overdue. Been on holiday and without any photographic material I dared not post anything!  :)
 
Milestone met! The genset is good enough to show off and it works 100%.
There are only a few more boxes to tick to get to exactly where I want to be - for now I am however content with where I am with the project.

It's been an interesting journey to get the electrics sorted... With the Arduino fried the next option was to go analogue. Thanks again to BruceM for the advice and encouragement.

Circuit operation in a nutshell: Voltage coming from the alternator is scaled down to 12V and monitored by op-amp comparitors. As soon as either adjustable over- or under voltage thresholds are exceeded, the circuit energises a power relay to shed the load going to the plug outlet. There is a time dealy build in to filter out dips and spikes. When the fault condition is resolved, the circuit can be reset to connect the load again. There is a switch in the panel where the monitoring circuit can be switched off - with the power relay wired N/C the circuit can thus operate without intervention. The green LED on the panel door indicates that voltage monitoring is active.

From left to right:
Plug outlet.
Non-latching pushbutton to reset trip.
Green LED - Voltage monitoring active.
Red LED - Output tripped.


Complete circuit assembly:


From left to right:
Neutral bar.
Main circuit breaker.
Voltage monitoring circuit breaker (On/Off).
2x transformers:
     One is to scale 230V to 12V for input into the comparitors.
     The other is 230V to 18V to power the delay-on relay.


The brains of the circuit:


From left to right:
Power relay to disconnect load. (230V Coil).
12V relay controlled by the delay timer. These contacts operates the power relay.
Delay-on timer triggered by the voltage monitoring circuit.


A brief demonstration:
https://youtu.be/vpnZOMdcmFM

For the alternator connection box I also made a cover. Found some plate in the shed and some heavy hammerblows later I had the cover.




On the way back from our coastal holiday, we made a road trip of the 1300Km journey back home. We stopped at a couple of interesting places and avoided the main roads so we could pass through some small towns. In one of these towns called "Willowmore" we browsed through some antique shops. In one of these shops I found a Lister Diesel tank, exactly the same as the one I have, in the back of a dark shelve  ;D The tank is beyond repair, but the Lister cap is intact! Of course it had to come home with me. In no time I had it cleaned up and the piece of crap chinese-made cap  was chucked sidways!



My to-do list to round the project off:
Guages in the panel door. (Volts, Amps, Hour meter, Frequincy)
Probably paint the panel green.
Gib head key covers.
Rocker bushes. (I'll turn these myself)
TAKE IT TO A SHOW!

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