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Messages - glort

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Great practical execution Ed as well as your always brilliantly entertaing story telling of the situation.

I have been wondering about the compatibility of a solar GTI and a generator recently.  Could you give me some more info on how to make them work together, what to watch/ avoid and any other of your valuable learned advice and knowledge.

I know a lot of people are interested in having their solar available in times of power outage and it seems setting up a grid signal with a genny to get them online is a great way of doing this.

Generators / Re: This guy would be fun to deal with
« on: February 18, 2019, 06:49:47 PM »

Very Well said Bob!
Totally and completely agree.

There are some cultures I point blank refuse to do business with as either a provider or as a customer.  I have been burnt before repeatedly with these people and as much as the PC will cry and sook about discrimination or what ever, I simply say how stupid would I be to keep doing something that has bit me on the arse before repeatedly and then do it again and expect a different result?  I'm thick but I'm not that far gone.

What gets me is the PC do gooders always think some people should always be afforded considerations and friendly attitudes to people whom have nothing but pure and utter contempt  for others not of their kind and in fact follow a belief system that straight out tells them to kill the infidels whenever they can get away with it and if they can't, Lie, cheat and undermine them whenever they can. I hold the same disdain for their beliefs and  life choices as they hold foe mine so why am in in the wrong? Am I not allowed the same freedoms others are or is there a prescribed way of thinking that applies to some and not others?

Many of the soft of heart and head repeat BS mantras these groups invented which are completely opposite to the truth and reality of the situation and hold them to be some poor, misunderstood angels that wouldn't hurt a fly.  When ever I come up against these soft of heart and head, I ask them, Have you wroked, lived and done business with these people... at all?  Inevitably the answer is NO yet they have the gall and Audacity to tell me who has done all 3 for 40+ years what little angelic cherubs they are.  Go to buggery with your ridiculous preaching pf something you have ZERO experience and first hand knowledge of but dare to tell me about these people when I have suffered them my whole life.

I am racist by the modern PC definition in that they firstly don't know the definition of what race really is and secondly, I do not believe every culture is the wonderful, peace loving, hard working honorable people we are suppose to believe everyone is.  We all have certain traits which are known to others if not recognized or admitted to ourselves. To deny that is ignorant and moronic.

 A party or get together at my place is like the race of all nations.
My good friends are all Italian, greek, Masso's,  french, Asians, Yugos and a stack of Poms.  We all stick it to each other about certain traits and laugh about it because we know it's true. I have several yank friends as well whom through distance I don't see often but always catch up with when they are here... or we are in NZ. The thing is, while a lot of them are "foreigners" whom have come here, most of them have a serious dislike for the people I myself have a disdain for through repeated experience as well.

2 of my good friends, One an Italian and one a greek have a passionate hate for a certain culture that no other culture I have met has ever had any liking of  and one always says if he was ever PM they would have a choice, be gone in a week or be shot and the other thinks they should be shot and then sent out of here.  Easy to write the attitudes off as whatever except for the fact one of them IS a certified and tested Genius that ranks in the top 10% of people in the world.  Not the guy you want to have an argument with in intelligence or physical stature and fitness.

I had the whole Greek family over a few weeks ago.Known them since their son and mine started school together and were best friends since day one.
We have all been though a lot together over the years. Their son has always been like a second son to my wife and I and ours  the same to them. Listening to the almost 80 Yo matriarchs experience with these people over the years and her dislike of them brings a new perspective. One of the kindest, gentlest most loving women you could ever meet  who would do anything for any one to have a passionate hatred is something to make one think how such a person got this way.
Moving here was significantly to get away from these people for the same reason as you Bob.
The areas I grew up in as a child have been over run by a culture hell bent on turning every place they go into the same crime and lawless shitholes as they came from and showing total and utter disregard for rules, the country and culture they have come to infect here and any form of civility or respect.
What was once an area regarded as upmarket and full of people with high standards is now looked at as somewhere best avoided for the documented crime that puts it CONSISTANTLY at the top of the worst crime areas in the country.  The other stats show the near 70%  dominance of one particular Culture and the writing on the wall could not be any clearer.  Compare that against the numbers for the last 40 years and you find in the early part going through to where there was a very strong Asian immigration to the area, it was safe as houses. Only when you go further along and see other influences and domination does the place go from a safe haven to a crime filled shithole.

The Pc do gooders never look at those documented facts and deny them if you bring them up.

I won't do business with some cultures the same as this seller for the same reasons. I have done business with them in the past with contracts in place and they just straight out lie, inisist there was some verbal agreement which would be idiotic in nature for any business to agree to and end up costing money, time, stress and loss of sleep I just don't need.

The last one I dealt with tried to scam me as well.  Signed contract and was made very well aware of the terms.  Deposit followed by full payment up front for the balance of the service 2 weeks prior with any add ons after wards to be paid when ordered and before the job was completed. Same thing I had been doing 20+ years that no one except one group ever had issue with.   Comes back for the job confirmation 2 weeks out and when I tell them the balance of the service and ask how they would like to pay. I'm told the father is paying for it and he does not want to pay till after the job is done.

I have been down this road too many times before. Of course after the job there is ALWAYS something wrong, something they are not happy with and something that warrants a huge discount on the agreed price.  Get stuffed. I'm a slow learner but I have learnt well and truly by now and can see this old chestnut coming.
It was only because I didn't meet the guy initially that I took the job then he showed up with the other half from a different background to sign the contract and go over details which shows these people know their own reputation.

I explain that is nice but that is irrelevant to me. I'm not doing business with the father nor have even met him and it was the person I'm talking to in front of me that signed the contract and my business is with him and any arrangements he has with other people is nothing at all to with me nor affects our agreements.
I told the guy we had a long standing agreement, the terms had been repeatedly been explained to him and he had signed a contract with said terms clearly written on it along with detailed pricing of any and all extras available.  Of course there were the typical excuses and BS of why he couldn't/ didn't want to pay and I wasn't wearing it.  Reached into my desk, Wrote a refund Check with the wife panicking seeing what was coming with him assuring her it would be OK, I wasn't going to loose business and I handed it to them saying have a nice life, I'm out.

It was then put on me that I was abandoning them at the last minute and it was unfair etc.  I told the guy, I'm the one trying to stick to the agreement, not me who is insistent on breaking it.  I showed them the door with the guy still going on about paying after the fact and did I not trust him?
I stopped him, looked him in the eye and said no, I didn't trust anyone that tries to break agreements one bit. I told him, fortunately I'm not as stupid as I look. I know whats coming, there will be some thing wrong no matter what I do and then after I have spent my time and money you will insist on a discount and I'll be up shit creek.  Told him, sorry mate, not falling for that one again.  Only time he shut up during the whole discussion.

10 min after they left I get a phone call saying they will come back and pay and the father has agreed.  I tell them no thanks.  There has to be a level of trust and faith in any business deal and clearly they didn't trust me and I sure no longer trusted them. Repeated I wasn't interested in the Job any longer several times and eventually said I have to go, good bye and hung up with him still yabbering trying to get me back on board.

As fate would have it, they went with a competitor I was friendly with, a Macedonian fellow who did brilliant work and I had never heard a complaint about in 6 years since he had come into the area. Sure enough, they put him through the wringer with complaints  about the work done and wanting discounts and picking up extra work they never paid for. Predictable as sunrise.

As soon as the guy told me about this short notice job he got after they got left high and dry by someone else I knew who it was. gave him the details and told him, why do you think I bailed when they failed to pay the balance up front?  At least this guy got the message first time round and admitted he had heard stories of the same thing from other people he knew. Being smarter than me i'm sure they would only get him once and the next lot that came along would be passed over very quick.

I'll pass on doing business with these people and anyone whom has a problem with that can exercise their right to do business with whom they want.
They can lay off judging me and the lectures until AFTER their business is completed and then we'll see if their experience was any different to mine or anyone elses and if their tune has changed.

It will have, guaranteed.

Generators / Re: Tensioner or Rail mounting.
« on: February 18, 2019, 12:26:02 PM »

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I'll try to find another. It's a good idea to check them out though that said, I have a shipload of same size belts so if I do go through them a bit, not the end of the world.

The speed won't be quick which is a plus, the pulleys not too tight which also helps but 12 kilo on a single A seems a bit much to me, I -think- a couple of A's should be OK. I think a tensioner reduces belt capacity from memory though.

Not really sure now what a Grid connected IMAG will do? I'd guess 9-10 Kw, definitely going to be less than 12 that's for sure.  6 kilo, 4 Hp sounds OK for an A belt and if it's less than that, should be fine I think. 

General Discussion / Re: Unexpected panel problem.
« on: February 18, 2019, 12:19:52 PM »
So still of topic but on the GTI subject, is it possible  to start a GTI with another inverter, last year we had a 3 day blackout, yet my solar panels would have produced 25 kWh a day if i could only have got them to turn on?

I tried it once. Blew the snot out of a good inverter instantly.
Maybe I should have had a load in there or maybe it was the wrong inverter or maybe I should have thought it through better in the first place.   :embarassed:

Problem is the GTI will want to push all the power it can back to the inverter and the inverter really won't want it.
Maybe as I said if you had a decent load running it MIGHT work but there is a lot going on as I said before that does not meet the eye or understanding of us mere mortals.

I just set up my solar/ car battery/ UPS system again.  Could have been an inverter but I haven't found where I put it yet.
30A PWM controller takes output from a couple of panels and charges a couple of 12V batteries wired in series.  UPS is hooked to those to provide 240.
I used my 2 kilo inverter the same way but I'd need a few more charge controllers to handle 2 KW.

Then again, maybe not. If I had 20 KW coming in and 2 going out, Panels will find their own level anyway. Just need to turn off the panels when the load switched out as well.  Leave a few panels On the 20 A controller and it will make up any shortfall.   there is also a load setting on that controller.
Would be real easy to wire the main panels to a Relay/ contactor to the Load output and set the max voltage as the turn off voltage.
batteries charge up, 2Kw of panels are isolated, 500W are controlled by the charger. Load comes on, voltage drops, controller kicks in relay again.

Should work perfectly and pretty simple to wire up.  I bought a few of those 4into 1  Mc4 adapters a while back so I would easy wire a kilo of panels in parallel for just such a use.  While ever you have the solar feeding the batteries with sufficient power, 2 car batteries would be fine. You'd just really need them as ballast.

To complete this system I'd like to get a serious Leece 24V alternator. They are BIG money here though. Other option is to use 12V alts and configure them to an external controller.  Think you'd have to spin them pretty damn hard to get 24V though.  Can't wire self reg alts in series or they will sense high voltage and shut down completely... if the magic smoke don't escape as well.

Generators / Tensioner or Rail mounting.
« on: February 18, 2019, 08:20:22 AM »

I'm wanting to hook up my 170 Kg Induction motor and my 70 Kg engine  with belt drive and build a mounting frame for them.
Thinking of wood as I think it will clang a lot less and I have some good size material for the job. also have some over size rectangular box.

Mountings on motor and engine are substantially different so one will require cross rails.
I'm thinking instead of mounting one on a rail so it can slide for belt tension ( and work loose as well) I would hard mount both and use a tensioner on the belt to take up the slack.

I was also thinking of a spring tensioner off a car cam belt or an accessories drive  but could also go a fixed tensioner.
The belt is an A series on both pulleys but only a single on the engine drive and 6" on the engine and a 5" on the motor.  Motor is 1440 RPM so thinking of a smaller 4" twin so I can get the engine revs up a bit onto the power curve ( engine is 2600 RPM rated) and twin belts to carry the load.

I think the bolt down both sides and use a tensioner will be a lot easier , stronger and require less maintence.

Surprised the motor only has A's but i'm not going to try and change it that's for sure even though it is a taper lock.

What's the consensus? Rail or tensioner belt adjustment, spring or fixed if tensioner?

General Discussion / Re: Unexpected panel problem.
« on: February 18, 2019, 07:37:36 AM »
  If you somehow did get a generator to become qualified, you must never allow your loads to  become less that the voltage/amps the GTI is producing.  Otherwise, the voltage will rise to the over-voltage disconnect level, and the GTI drops off, or the rising voltage frys the generator and it fails, with all the GTI feeding into it.

That's what I figured.
The load would have to be less than the generator was capable of but more than the GTI  could do so the GTI would only ever take the main load off the generator and if the load disappeared, there would be a problem.

General Discussion / Re: Unexpected panel problem.
« on: February 18, 2019, 07:32:51 AM »
We are on town water, 2nd last street to have it.
We don't have sewerage, everyone has their own Biocycle tank which makes water rates much cheaper when you don't have to buy the water and pay to dispose it too. I like having a septic type tank. We get to use the water twice. Once for whatever domestic purpose and once for watering gardens we'd pay for otherwise.

I have water tanks but still really learning how to manage them. When to use the water and when to save it.
Think I'll start dropping the big one next day or 2. lawn is going crisp again and needs a good drink.  may be some rain next week so might be the time to use it.

Behind us it's all full rural and tank water. My mate lives about 20 Min further out and he's always chasing water. Has 250K litres storage ATM and it's not enough. Tanks only fill when it rains and apart from a few weeks before Xmas when we got good rains, it's been less than 1/5th annual rainfall here for the last 20 months or more.

I'm not sure what you mean by standing water but if you mean a well, said mate just had one put in at a cost of $30K. that's going to be for gardens and horses, car washing etc.  They went down 185 Meters to get good water and flow which is still a bit thin in comparison to turning on a tap even.

I believe round here they go about 165 Meters so it's a bit much to dig with a shovel!  :0)

At my old place you could go down 3 Ft and get loads of water seepage pretty much all the time.
I had the big Idea of digging a shallow well  for water seepage when I got here and bought a post hole Digger that will go 9ft and thought I'd be laughing. Yeah right.  At 15 Ft you are still bringing up dust.

General Discussion / Re: Unexpected panel problem.
« on: February 18, 2019, 03:57:40 AM »

Here you get about .8 to .15C Kwh for every Kwh you export.
You pay about 28- 48C Kwh. the higher the FIT, the higher the purchase cost and the daily Supply charge.
With very few exceptions you are only eligeable to see power back if you have an under 10Kw system.  Greedy power co's don't want anypne eating into the offensive revenues.  I predict this export limits and tarrifs may increase in the not too distant future with the power shortages that are widely forecast and predicted. 

That's what got Solar ereally started in this country in the first place. The grid was in a bad way from lack of Maintence and failing to keep up with population growth and they wanted to ease the strain till they could catch up. They introduced solar and it caught on better than they wanted in the end.
Now with the grid privatized the same thing is happening again only worse.

The lights are already going out and  the next 2-3 summers are predicted to have very serious shortages.

Something I have been reading about which I have previously read the opposite is running GTI's with generators.
Some seem to think that as long as the GTI won't overpower the generator and there is sufficient load, you can run  a generator, hook in an GTI, the 2 will sync and the GTI will take the load off the genny to whatever degree but the GTI must not over rate either the load or the generator output.

Sounds possible in theory but I have read of a lot of cluey people saying it can't be done.  not sure exactly why or the right terms but suffice to say I understand there is more going on than volts, amps and frequency which can cause the genny and the GTI not to play nice.

Others say they do it and it works. Anyone tried or have any thoughts or info on this?

Generators / Re: This guy would be fun to deal with
« on: February 18, 2019, 03:41:19 AM »

Much as it will upset some of the PC by saying it, I don't blame him.

I would bet this guy would be pretty easy to deal with if you weren't some scamming low life that was trying to touch him up as he has obviously had experience with before and does not want to go down the same road again which is only what any sensible person would do.


Had it been in Oz, probably would have bought it myself.

General Discussion / Re: Unexpected panel problem.
« on: February 15, 2019, 09:40:30 PM »

Must be a lot of force being generated in those winds.
Pitty the panels can't be made to rotate so they become a wind generator, might make more than the solar output at the right times, especially at night!   :laugh:

I had 5 Kw worth of panels on a ground mount last winter that just sat on 1" tube frames.  Never had a problem all winter, even with some I had just leaning against the bushes. Couple blew over a could of times but other than that, nothing.
I suppose the wind up high where it has a clear run si a lost stronger than across the ground. hence the reason to stick turbines up as high as they can get them.

General Discussion / Re: Unexpected panel problem.
« on: February 14, 2019, 09:16:58 PM »

When I put the panels up very early in my solar learning curve I was contemplating putting them on tilts.
 I was concerned about the wind even though it would have largely been from the side not behind which was the same angle  as these panels were positioned flat.

Seems my concerns about the wind were not unfounded.
We have had some bad winds here in the last 12 Months. I'm very glad I went with flat panels  and didn't worry about tilting them.
The small price I pay in lost winter generation is more than worth the removed worry specially now I have seen this.

General Discussion / Unexpected panel problem.
« on: February 14, 2019, 01:21:18 PM »

Was looking over my shed inverter today and thought the generation was down. it was overcast but the smaller array  less optimally positioned on the house was doing better than the much larger and better orientated arrays on the shed.

Tracked it down to one array was not producing any power.
Tested for volts, amps output to the inverter, changed the breakers and swapped trackers. All to no avail. Finally thought it must be something  on teh roof, maybe a bad connection but couldn't see how.
Got the ladder, got up there and spotted it straight off.  One panel on the top pitch of the American barn type shed had done a front flip and face planeted itself forward ontop on another panel on the lower array.

This panel is on the end where the wind normaly blows.  I had it lift before so I screwd the thing down well.  I saw the solar bracket I secured it at the top, the clamp on the side looked like it had slipped off and the L bracket on the end was now a U  bracket where the panel had done a front 180.
The panel was shattered which was annoying but I was more amazed with teh fact the wind had got under a 20 Kd panel sitting flat on a roof ( I don't use solar rails)  and torn the tek screw right out of the metal Purlin.  I though maybe I missed the purlin and only got the roof iron itself but when I got down to get what I needed for the replacement, I could indeed see it had pulled through the roof truss itself.


I knew the end panels got more wind and I set the thing back from the edge knowing that was where the wind came from and I secured it down in 3 places. I would have bet a lot of money that panels would never have moved.
And I'd have lost. Badly.

 I realised as well I missed some panels along that run and they are just laying there completely unsecured, or at least they were till today, but none of them had moves probably because of being flat, in a line and maybe the prevailing wind hits the end of the shed and rotates pressing them down.
Perhaps the end is worse than normal because there is a big water tank underneath and although there is a lot of hedging 25M away on the boundary fence, maybe the air  hits the tank and  creates a more powerful updraft?

In any case, I was pretty amazed to see that there was enough force to tear the thing out of the metal.

I decided to eliminate the problem and removed the old smashed panel from the end and put the replacement in the last spot I had which is tilted between the 2 roof sections.  I think I'll get back up and re arrange a few panels and there is one I noticed I'll also have to replace.

There is a junction on the panel that is quite clearly burnt and creating a hot spot.  From what I read fire potential. Longshot  I think but it will be screwing with the output of the rest of the array so I'll change it out as well.
Getting more broken panels that what I'd like but they are ok for running shed and ceiling fans and other low volt solar experiments.

I'm doing another array on the house and I think I'll take another look at the solar clamps and go back to my own DIY soloution that did hold and use the little L brackets from the hardware and screw them direct into the panels and remove and replace the roof screw with the bracket underneath. I think I had that on the flipped panel it would not have. At some time I think the clamp shifted and put the force on the top bracket which was 2 much. If 2 brackets were sharing the load and couldn't move, I don't thik they could have both pulled out.

Anyway, problem fixed.  Just one I thought I had addressed with over kill but there you go.
I know the winds are strong here and get pretty scary but the force to left a 20 KG panel and pull out a tek screw, that I didn't give credit for.


Didn't someone here buy one of those not so long ago?
Same sell going by the pic.


As soon as I get the thing, If I get it, I'll make sure your place is the first port of call. And I'll tell her that YOU talked me into it.  :laugh:

I don't know. I just got rid of one of these heavy lumps as a non runner. I have plenty of engines, I really need gen heads to couple them up to.

I was working on a couple of genny setups today. You are right, they are a lot of work even as something one likes doing.  Sometimes simple basic things take a lot of time just getting the right bits and pieces. All looks simple when it's done but doing it.... another story.

Going to go to the metal place tomorrow to see if they have any Cira  55MM round bar.  That should be cheap.  ::) I want to insert that into the std pulley on my horozontal and then get someone to turn it down to 1" and 3/4 like the last failed shaft.  Hoping I can get it turned  so I can freeze the shaft, heat the pulley and make it a shrink fit.

The Big Induction motor I'm still thinking about making a frame for that. I'd like to do it in wood and get some long bolts to go tight though to hold the engine own.  Probably have to do the same with the motor.  question is, How thick does the wood need to be? I have bowed some pretty substantial pieces in teh past and 4x2" isn't going to cut it. Engine is 170 Kg, engine will be about 70. Think I'll have to mount it all on 10" car wheels.

One of the China diesels I want to put a couple of car alts on. Wondering if I can get away with a micro belt in a V pulley or I'll have to try and find V belt pulleys for the alts?  Then I'll have to make up a mounting frame work for that.

I feel for you with the health issues. I'm not so hot atm myself. Just physicaly buggered all the time and going out and moving these lumps about even with the floor crane I made is still an effort.

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