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Messages - glort

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Generators / Re: Another generator not generating
« on: August 21, 2019, 10:54:58 PM »

You could try fleabay or Alli express.  Some of the stuff like that is surprisingly economical.

I had a quick look on ali and didn't see anything for rotors ( although the all plastic cam shaft was a worry!) but sometimes you have to dig and get the right obscure terminology to find what you want.

Failing that, You have an engine you can couple to an alternator for 12 or 24V battery charging.  You might want to keep  the end of the rotor and Cut it off if the engine has the tapered shaft as they can be  hard to get adaptors for.  You can always weld the end oc the rotor on after you have had it checked and turned down to a standard size if need be.

Generators / Re: Another generator not generating
« on: August 21, 2019, 10:33:52 PM »

Listeroid Engines / Re: Roid Bearing Quality?
« on: August 21, 2019, 01:21:23 PM »

Good to hear about the magneto.
I picked up a bunch of Maggys from aircraft years back that had done their hours and were being sent  back for overhaul. Always thought they would make very good replacements for old engines in a Pinch. 

Everything else / Re: I've only gone and done it!
« on: August 21, 2019, 01:17:35 PM »

Good to gear it's all coming along.
Should make a great official holiday retreat for Lister forum members. :0)

Generators / Re: Another generator not generating
« on: August 21, 2019, 12:24:33 AM »

Those Kipor's have gained a good reputation here. another China special that is making inroads into the traditional Honda/ Yamaha market because they are 1/3rd the price and by most accounts just as reliable.

The one you have looks like it's done some hours.  Those China Diesels are noisy things too not that it would matter much on a job site.

You can never assume something is good just because it's new but it's a pain to order another to find you have 3 good ones now.
Just check for broken wires and bad connections and go from there.

I have a similar thing on the Kubota I recently bought. there is power coming from the alternator and that's about where the function of the electric system stops. No key start but the starter is fine and no battery charging.  Pretty much just as easy as to tear all the wiring out and start again.

Let us know what you find. At least these things will run ok On a veg oil blend.

Listeroid Engines / Re: Roid Bearing Quality?
« on: August 20, 2019, 01:17:15 PM »

$400 ea?

Do they also fit railway Carriages?
Maybe you could find a cross reference with some more common types, that is ridiculous!

My roid has TRB's. The seals on the thing squeeked for some hours when i first ran it. had to spay them with WD about every 10 Min. Oil didn't seem to get in.

Everything else / Re: Solar - 24vdc Panel with 12vdc Charge Controller
« on: August 19, 2019, 06:52:03 AM »

My Russian is more Corroded rather than rusty however in the first vid the guy is definitely feeding the board 36Volts so it will handle that at least. He says he first feeds it 73 V from what I can make out but that seems kind of high although maybe it's just momentarily as a stress test. The light bulb he is testing it with however is 24V so that does not tell us if it will do the 24>12 conversion but adds hope it should if it will pull down from 36.

 He shows the first board and compares the heat sinks to the blue one he calls grey?? and says he fried the first one running it flat out and the heat sink is too small. He compares the heat sink on the second one and comments how much larger and capable it is. oh, he may be referring to the heat sink being grey on the first one. It's definitely too small for his liking. He says he fried the thing at 12V because the amps were too high and running it at 19V is better and will charge a 18V battery down to a minimum of 21V input.
He tests the various settings on the pots and concludes the thing does do  true MPPT and will start up down to 11V but one of the pots adjusts that kick in voltage.  He says after setting the pots, in practice with a load they are about 20% out to what he set them to with the 24V bulb as a load.

The second guy is looking at the MPPT function and determines the board does do true MPPT and will Buck and boost. He tests the ripple which is low, under .5V 
He tests  the startup function as with a dead battery and determines it will trickle charge the battery first then kick in the full charging and then taper off the last 15% of the charge and gradually decreases from there. He demonstrates it will do full MPPT and hole the panels at voltage while varying the output.

In the second Vid he tests the ripple at high power and it is still good but cooling the IC makes the thing over shoot a little.
Driving the thing at full load makes it overheat after a while and it would be better at 3a unless a cooling fan is used on it.

Seems the board for once works as advertised and does a good job.  Someone in the China factory making these obviously slipped up and did something right!

What I would like to do is use this board to control a Bigger Mosfet that will hold the panels at the set voltage while allowing the board to be the base controller to drive a higher voltage and amperage load. The buck and boost would be irrelevant, just use it to hold the panels in a 10V range where they will still be outputting 95% of their power.

Everything else / Re: Solar - 24vdc Panel with 12vdc Charge Controller
« on: August 18, 2019, 01:39:33 AM »
Nice find Glort. That does look like it will take a 24V panel input to a 12V battery as Veggie desires, though I couldn't find specs or manual that specifically elaborates that. 

No, I couldn't either but as it does not specifically say it won't do the 24/12 and knowing other MPPT controllers can, just have to give it a go. If the magic smoke comes out, I'll claim a refund.
I have seen descriptions of  things like this that one either ends up having no clue whatsoever as to what the thing actually is for , or, The impression given to everyone who reads said description is completely and utterly opposite to the actual function of the component!

Funny enough, when I was looking at these different boards the other week, I was specifically after some that were NOT MPPT.  I came across several that were described as PWM  but the picture clearly showed the inductor that told me they were MPPT which wasn't what I wanted.
Of course the number of PWM controllers that are described ( and Priced) as MPPT  is well known.
The Chinese are anything BUT ethical or honest Business people.

The only concern with a fixed voltage converter of either PWM or MPPT is that never going to float or never going to bulk charge voltages in some cases can limit lead acid battery life.

Hmm, equalising charge.  I guess one could always have a second Controller set higher and switch that one in now and then to give the battery a boost. Matter of fact a Timer board could be put on said controller so it kicked it in automatically every so often for a given time to raise the voltage.  Plenty of the little timer boards that will do week intervals now.

I think PWM vs MPPT is irrelevant.  MPPT is mostly hype and I certainly don't give a hoot  about the last 15% of PV power under certain low light situations.  PV is so cheap now that it's nuts not to design for plenty of extra PV for winter/cloudy days. 

I think it depends on the application.
PWM will normally  pull the panels down to battery voltage rather than keep them at their Pmax which can be important is some applications. If the array is dragged down, it will certainly kill the efficiency not just at the beginning and end but right through the day.  Of course depends if you can use all the array's output and for how long.  On big systems and in bad weather, that might be important to some people.

In playing with the idea of a solar only direct control water heater, PWM is fine but it does need to take into account the sweet spot in the panels.  It's a real annoyance to have 2KW of panels hooked to an element and get 500W output if you are lucky.  Resistance matching leaves a lot to be desired as well.  No matter how many panels one has, it's nice to get some semblance of correct operation out of them.
I can have an array hooked directly to an element and get Diddly out of it. I then take that same connection and put it into a GTI and hook the element to that and get 5X more power output.
Not so much a matter of cost of panels for me, it's now a matter of space to put them all!  :0)

What I want to do is use the simple PWM but have control parameters on it so it will run in the panels happy place.  With that accomplished, I agree, MPPT is largely a waste of time in most applications.  My axiom with solar  from early on is inefficient is efficient when the cost of getting efficiency out of something is weighed against just throwing more brute force at it.
In the case of PWM with things like an element, that may not be the case always.

I certainly agree with the idea of over designing for the low radiation periods. All my arrays are pretty much double the inverters capacity or more.  I realised over winter that the output from the solar wasn't that much down through the main 4 Hours, it was just the things were only at the good end of production 4 Hours instead of more like 8 in summer. It wasn't so much an output thing as a time problem.

I also noticed on cloudy days the output from a 2KW inverter could be virtually the same or even better than a much larger one.  More dependent on what it was hooked to rather than the size of the inverter itself.

The system I put up at my fathers place is a design disaster in effect.  Wrong direction, terrible shading, wrong tilt..... But the Little inverter it's on is overclocked to hell.  The output is pretty useless when the the panels NEVER see direct light but the other 9 Months of the year, It's halved his bill and the output is better than I would have expected by a long margin.  The extra panels make a BIG difference to what the thing would do if set up as our regs allow with only 30% over drive. 

While I was sitting here, my 1 hp air compressor is topping off my 500 gallon tank.  I know it's still pumping as there's a bug in my battery charge controller which causes it to go to bulk charge voltage when there's a big load on the inverter.

Ummm, how is that a Bug?
Load comes on, battery voltage will drop presumably enough to trigger charge into bulk state, Charger kicks in hard and basically supplies load direct at least to the max it can so when load kicks off, battery's recharge to float voltage maybe in minutes or certainly a lot quicker than they would have if all the load was borne by them alone.

What do you see as the problem and what would you like to happen?

Everything else / Re: Solar - 24vdc Panel with 12vdc Charge Controller
« on: August 17, 2019, 04:41:28 PM »

 You might be able to find a 24/12V PWM controller that can do directly what you want,

Why do you think the PWM controller would not give max battery Life Bruce.?  If the max voltage was set to the point you want the battery to Float, why would it go over? I would think it would be just a matter of hooking everything up and setting the controller with a Multimeter to keep the battery where you wanted it.  I would assume that the "charge" current would taper off as the voltage got higher which would be exactly what one wanted.

In any case, I got a couple of these on order that should do the Job:


Being MPPT they should handle the 24 to 12 Down rating and are also adjustable for the desired end voltage.

There are also these Boards  https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-DC-Buck-Constant-Voltage-Current-Converter-DIY-Lithium-Battery-Charger-Board/112546564848?hash=item1a344c4af0:g:fB4AAOSwuq9ZY04k&frcectupt=true

And the same with a readout: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Solar-Panels-MPPT-Controller-5A-DC-buck-Step-down-Constant-Voltage-Current-Modul-/191927867733

Plenty of cheap solutions in any event.

Everything else / Re: Solar - 24vdc Panel with 12vdc Charge Controller
« on: August 17, 2019, 05:34:16 AM »

I would ask why even bother with the charge controller in the first place?

The buck converters I have seen all have output ajustment  over a fairly wide range. If you set them to a max limit of 14.5/ 14.8, whatever you like your batteries to flat at, then a charge controller is unnecessary because they will never go above that.
If you load them up the voltage will drop and the Buck converter will flow more power up to it's and the panels limit ( no reason you can't series the panels if the Buck will handle it) and get more output. If you have multiple panels, I'd series them in an east, west and flat configuration. that way you will get the earliest charge into your batteries, the latests and the best possible in  crappy weather.
Angling the east/ west panels at 60O will also allow you the most CONSTANT and even charge into the batteries which is what you want over the highest output especially if the batteries are small.

As you have the Buck set to 15V in the diagram, turn it down a fraction more and that's it.  Once the battery hits that voltage the buck will only supply the MA it needs to float and anything else the load requires.

The PWM controllers will pull the panel voltage down to the battery and are no different to direct connection EXCEPT for the cut off. I have a panel hooked to the exact charger in the vid which aren't bad for the cheap thing they are but My Buck controller is a High amp Fixed output. You would have to be sure the Buck converter would cope with the potential draw of the Charge controller  but again, I don't see the need for one.

If you measured a lot of ripple from the Buck, just add in a nice fat capacitor or bank thereof.

I have a battery charger I use as a power supply and it's low output works on the half wave from the rectifier which gives terrible ripple and some devices wouldn't work because of it.  A 370UF 330V Cap ( was what I had)  Smoothed it out very nicely and still gives lower power but a lot cleaner DC than before.  When using it as intended as a battery charger, the batteries themselves too care of the ripple.

I see no problem, I just wouldn't worry about the charge controller to start with and maybe throw in a cap on the output side but I don't see it will be needed unless you are running  like a 2Ah battery or similarly tiny.

Lister Market Place (things for Sale) / Re: ChanChai pellet mills
« on: August 13, 2019, 01:58:48 PM »
I just bought a band new old stock Changfa 1115 for $300

For that price, I'd have bought a Dozen!  :0)

Flea bay is getting more and more corrupt.  I am seeing listings with something at $2 for a Bolt or a screw when the advertised Item is something worth $50 and the second you click the drop down box the price shoots up.
There are a lot of Chinese sellers listing their location as our main Mail distribution centre and passing off as local sellers.  The give away is the postage time is a month or more to be delivered to the same city they are supposedly in.

Ebay does not give a damn about anything except getting their fees.  Lots of sellers have multiple stores and if for some reason they shut one down, they just open another.

The counterfeits are getting over the top as well. I wouldn't buy a memory card or a USB stick there.  The crap they pass off is terrible and they do it under branding of recognised companies. There are so many things where the numbers and specifications are completely meaningless.
One can buy 18650 batteries in 5000 Mah and even 10K Mah.  Pitty the companies on the cutting edge of these batteries are still only able to produce 3300 Mah in that size cell!  Of course you buy a cell rated at a modest 2500 Mah and people take them home and test them and find they are 1500 Mah or worse!

The list of similar BS specs is endless.

Not only do fleabay turn a blind eye to the dodgy sellers, they actively defend them. There is a company here known for importing Chinese machinery and different Home related things.  They are also well known for garbage service, screwing people around endlessly and selling crap products.
It's also well known that Neg feedback people leave Just Disappears.  Loads of people have screen shotted their feedback only to show it disappeared a day or 3 Later.  Seen that first hand myself with my buying mistakes.

I reckon there are seller on there and plenty of them that never sell a thing.
Under our consumer law if something doesen't show up, you are entitled to a full refund.  I reckon there are sellers out there that never have a thing to sell or very little . Person buys, no item, sorry heres a refund...... If you remember you didn't get it which I'm sure there would be enough that didn't and the company pockets the money and can do OK not sending out a thing.

Another scam I have seen latley is sending out crap goods and then offering partial refunds.
Had that with something I bought recently where they sent the complete wrong product.  They then went on and on about a partial refund. Why should I wear any of the cost of your Screw up.  I got bleeding heart messages about they will loose money and could I " Understand" ( the favourite Chinese cop out) and everything they could to get out of giving me all my money back.  Finally left neg feedback and opened a claim.  They said they would refund in full if I changed Feedback.  I did. Left it exactly the same only put the word " Refunded" at the end.  They complained I said I would change it. I said I did, my experience was crap, do you expect me to tell lies and say it was good just because I got a refund after backing you into a corner to get it.?
Nothing changed just because I got a refund but I was honest and changed my feedback to indicate that.

I got mucked around badly a few years ago on something worth around $100. They wouldn't do squat and neither would fleabay and they had clearly played that game before and thought they were safe.
Unfortunately the box they sent had pickup details on it so I went round their little fire hazzard unit block and confronted them. Little con man nearly had a stroke when I threw the product on his table and told him I wanted a refund or there would be big trouble.  He laughed and said what you going to do, Hit me? I call police.
I said oh no, i'm not a violent man or a criminal, but what I will do is publish your company names and this address all over the net so other people can find you.  I got my money despite his wife screaming at him and trying to stop him.  I reported them to fleabay and fair trading but of course nothing came of it.

I guess it will get a lot worse before it gets better through fleabay doing something .

Lister Market Place (things for Sale) / Re: ChanChai pellet mills
« on: August 13, 2019, 03:23:56 AM »
Read the fine print. The mills are shipped direct from China. That means it must go through customs, are you willing to risk that the engine will slip through? If not you get to pay US Customs to destroy it.

I was wondering how they got them in with a Diesel engine on them yet Diesel engines alone can't be imported. I did see on the feedback that there appear to have been a number sold but who to or where they were is not shown. For the prices they are charging, It would appear to be somewhere people have more Dollars than good sense!

I wonder what happens if they are Seized at customs and how that sits with both Fleaby and US consumer law? 
Well actually I know about flebay, they don't give a shit and if one wades through the fine print on their guarantees that aren't worth squat.
US consumer law would be interesting especially when the inevitable happens.

The Overt and laughable blind patriotism used to sell the things is ridiculous but I guess some fall for it.
So many wouldn't buy anything that wasn't made in the US of A.... even if it was clearly Chinese!

General Discussion / Re: Tesla
« on: August 10, 2019, 09:08:56 AM »

You can grind the edges of the stators to a round bevelled shape Bruce.
The extra gap allows the magnets in the rotor to transition more smoothly and reduces the Cogging effect some of the alternators of this type do have.

I hate wind, I truly despise it. 
The last few days have been blowing a gale here almost non stop. I expected it this time of year and thought I was prepared for it but there is nothing you can do to combat it.
It infuriates me when I screw/ bolt something down to allow for wind and it tears the fastener head through the metal or breaks it. I have lost plants I nursed all through winter and were starting to come on with spring just weeks away . I literally pumped $$ worth of power into them ( more more correctly heated the ground they were in) and staked them up only to have the plant be snapped in the middle though the force of the wind on it's leaves.

I said to the Mrs this morning when I was picking up some panels I had tied down and snapped the rope I secured them to the shed with, that the next place we go to I'll research to have the least wind possible.
She found a bucket round the front this afternoon. It had been on the back verandah yesterday where I filled it full for watering the plants.  How the FK does a full bucket of water blow over? I screwed the cats feed tray to 2  20x20 CM great chunks of wood as I was getting tired of searching for that every morning and evening to feed them. Wondering if I should have just screwed it direct to the outdoor table?

Surprisingly, all my ground mount solar arrays have withstood the onslaught bar one panel that has slipped down due again to the tek screws I fastened it with to the support beam  I screwed it to ripping through the frame. the force that would take is just ridiculous.  Surprised the whole things haven't moved but clearly boring those 2" steel post holes  a meter into the ground and the 3x4" cross beam was not a waste of time. Don't know what else I can do to stop the things tearing away other than spot weld the things.

I'd make a VAWT using panels for sails if I wasn't so sure the whole dam thing would be blown away even if I did fasten it to a cubic meter of concrete with 6x 25 MM bolts or break the hus assembly from a car i'd use as a bearing!

I stood in the back yard yesterday and could see the furthermost trees I can see blowing clearly in 3 different directions at the same time.
How the heck does that work?? I'm also about half way down the hill on 2 slopes which I curse when there is heavy rain and we get all the water running through but looking at those trees yesterday, I think it does afford us some shelter and reduces the wind strength those not  to too far away get hit with.

A wind turbine here wouldn't last one good blow and the rest of the time it would do absolutely nothing.
I'll stick with my solar panels direct on my roof with no railing for the wind to get under and tear the damn things off.

Engines / Re: Lister ST1 becomes hard to hand crank.
« on: August 10, 2019, 02:44:14 AM »
The resoloution is 640 x 480. It's anything BUT over the top.

They would be a lot more readable and useful if you could double or triple the Res.
Your efforts are commendable and none the less Im sure are greatly appreciated, just trying to clear up any misunderstandings of which way you need to go if you want to make the images more useful and easy for people to read.   ;)

It also helps when doing anything of this type to put the documents in the brightest even shade light you can find.  Many people try and photograph things in relative dark especially with phones but if you take them outside on a bright day and in even shade, they will come out as good as they are going to.

Lister Market Place (things for Sale) / Re: New Listeroids for sale
« on: August 10, 2019, 02:38:36 AM »

Diesels last a long long time. A listeroid is an over designed extremely low stress e.g. yield, engine. 

It would not surprise me at all to see a well maintained listeroid chugging away at 50,000 hours.

Mate I don't know if you have done any reading here or just come to push your business interests but you are talking to people who pretty much at a Minimum, have a decade of experience with these things on their own, and probably several centuries combined. You are talking to many people whom in some cases have torn down, modified and rebuilt dozens of these things. And you are trying to tell them you know better after playing with a couple for a couple of years.  I'm sure you can see the credabiolity problem there.

If you go back through the loads of info here again going back over 10 years, you will see people well understand these things and their abilities and limitations. Unless you have re invented the wheel, there is nothing to say your engines are any different or better than the ones people have been playing with  for a VERY long time.

Describing what is well known and making predictions that in no way add up to the hands on experience so many people have with these engines in all their different sizes and flavours, is not going to convince anyone nor change their minds. 
From what I can tell, you have a few years experience playing with these things but you are trying to tell people whom have relied on them daily for years and torn loads of them apart, that what they know is wrong.

From what I can see, the sum total of your experience with these engines is you have been testing a couple ( or was it just one actually used) for a couple of years. That means absolutely nothing. I have had one of these things about 10 years but there would be a bunch of people here that would run theirs more in a month or two than mine has done in it's life.  Exactly how many hours has this test engine of yours done?  I know for a fact the engine I have is a complete and utter piece of garbage with every known fault these things have but it's probably done a couple of hundred hours and runs fine too.  How it runs at 500 hours and beyond I expect would be a very different thing.

Are you even aware of the common problems with these engines and what specifically have you done to address them? If you listed those you would have a lot more traction in trying to convince people the engines you are selling will be different and more reliable.

Sorry, but what would or wouldn't surprise you or what you think is really insignificant to the decades of hands on experience people here have with these engines and the information they have shared which pretty much all flys in the face of your own. Which to be honest, is nothing more than sales Hype rather than anything remotely technical or detailed .
You have actually posted ZERO information or details that would change anyone's mind that you have overcome the mountains of documented problems these engines can have due to the terrible manufacturing practices and non existent quality control from where you are sourcing them that is the same place everyone else has.
Have you even been to any of the factories and seen and spoken to those making them first hand or has this all been organised through emails?

Did you tear either of these engines down you tested at any point and check them to be in spec and assembled correctly or did you just take the assurances of the person you bought them off because they said the right things you wanted to believe? Without a teardown and measurement, you are kidding yourself far more than anyone else.  I see nothing so far that suggests that you have done anything but run them.... for unknown hours with an unknown load. 

I understand you are trying to push these things and have a financial vested interest in them and therefore want to show them in the best light. Unfortunately You are completely and utterly out of your depth here with the experience and knowledge many have ( and I'm NOT talking about myself)  but as disagreeable as some here can be, their opinions formed over many years and with at least 10's of engines will always be what I and pretty much everyone else goes with, especially as it completely agrees with my own limited experience. It will take a LOT for you or anyone else to come near the respect and believability people here hold that have already commented here.

You may be better off spending your time trying to push your beliefs of these things to less experienced people else where because I really don't think you are going to do much good trying to sell your Yellow snow to this Village of Eskimos.
Where you might get better returns for your efforts is to look at importing spare parts. These are always in demand ( despite the engines running 50K hours) and there would be I believe a better and more profitable market for them.... If you can compete with the other established people doing it in the limited market that exists.

Unless you can PROVE different, what you have is the same engines everyone else has. That's OK though. Just don't try to over hype them and tell people they are something they are not and that's good enough. The engines are well known to this audience, just make the things affordable and available and you are there. Plenty of people will buy them for what they are with all their faults and problems IF they can get them at a reasonable price. You'd do a lot better to be honest and say these things typically need work to get them right than try and tell them you think they should last 50K hours when I myself have yet to see anyone with EXPERIENCE claim that yet.
Just get the things into the US at a reasonable price and 90% of the work will be done then and there.

As one sales person to another, You are going to have to hit this audience with a lot of hard and documented facts to win them over that you have a better mousetrap and change their minds. Talk alone is not going to come near doing it. 

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