Lister Engine Forum
Slow Speed Diesel Engines => Other Slow Speed Diesels => Topic started by: mobile_bob on August 25, 2006, 06:46:53 AM
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came across a stash of pullout engines today, my business partner and i got 7 of them for a grand total
these are governed at low setting of 1300 and high of 2400 so they are somewhat mid speed engines
4cylinder 2 liter diesel, electric start, full pressure lube, and filtration etc.
pretty cool units, that when up to snuff run pretty efficiently and quiet.
i figure to sort out a couple as runners and make the others into parts donors
hope to post some pix soon
bob g
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Congrats brother, sounds exciting keep us posted!
Peace&Love :D, Darren
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Where do you search for pull out's? Would it be salvage places or auctions? Thanks.
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actually we ran into them at an equipment salvage yard,
the story goes that they were pulled out of some surplus shipping containers units, that were going to be set stationary
and were converted into electric powered units
i am told they are not too hard to find and can bring as much as 500 bucks or so for a good known runner, they go for 4400 bucks each exchange for rebuilt units on average.
engine rebuild kits arent too bad though, they can be had for around 475 bucks, include the normal stuff like pistons, rings, rods and main brgs, cam brgs, soft plugs, gskts and seals, intake and exhaust valves, water pump, oil pump and valve guides,,, pretty much everything in the kit but cam and lifters, crank and casting,,, oh ya and it comes with new glow plugs!
they might be a reasonable alternative for those that either can't or don't want to build up a listeroid, or can't get one.
typically they have two rpm settings, solenoid controlled ~1300 low speed and ~2400 high speed, but i am told that can be altered to about whatever one wants up to about 4200 rpm (which is way too fast for long life)
i am not sure but i think they had about a 20 year production run, so there are literally millions of them out there all over the world.
monday we are picking them up, so i will try to post some pics for those interested
bob g
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Now THAT'S my idea of an engine with a long-term, well established reliability record. Not as sweet sounding as a listeroid, but probably a more practical choice...
Are these set up to direct-drive the compressor, or were they belt drive?
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they were setup to be direct drive, they have rubber insert grommets in the flywheel and the compressor drive hub has pins that fit into the grommets, looks like an effective an long lived drive.
upon further research they look to have average lifespans of around 20,000 hrs, with average maintenance(whatever that is)using conventional oils, and reportedly upwards of 60,000 hrs with synthetic oils and good maintenance (whatever that is :) )
the compressors were somewhere around 120,000 btu,, now that is alot of cold! sure would knock the edge off a hot day in most folks homes :)
also they hold 15 qts of oil! thats a bunch for a little motor, perhaps an indication that they knew that no one would check them very often.
also the flywheel housing is cut out at the bottom about 1/2 giving good access to the flywheel.
i have sketched out a trigenerator based on this engine, an st 15kwatt head, two 160 amp leecenevilles and a york a/c compressor, nice neat compact unit. about half the size of a regular refridgerator.
with some controls i can trip the high idle to generate 120/240 off the st head, or trip back to low idle to run the alternators and a/c or run some of each at high idle setting.
cant wait to get em in,,, and get one running enough to mock up with.
will make for a nice winter project
bob g
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60,000 hours! :o That would be 1.8 million miles in a automotive application.
Peace&Love :D, Darren
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Thermo King also uses mercedes and vw engines. I have a vw engine. I would like to get my hands on an isuzu. I hear alot of good things about those engines and the other models they make.
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well it is set we will pick them up monday morning, and if all goes well will sort out the best looking one
and test fire it.
i got to looking at my parts stash, and i think i have all that is needed to assemble my first trigenerator based on this engine.
at this point i don't anticipate having any of these engines to be good enough to run long term as is, but i might be surprised.
we only have ~ 150 bucks each in them so i guess having to overhaul one wouldnt be bad at all, at least then i would have one that is in perfect working order.
drew up the sketch today and firmed up the plan,
basically the engine will be mounted above a 15 kwatt ST head, with belt drive down to it, mounting the head on a swivel
base to take up belt tension.
leaves the two outer grooves to drive two alternators, and an a/c pump with a pair of industrial double V belts in a serpentine fashion above the crankshaft centerline.
plan calls for a double door one of which will mount the oil full flow and bypass filter, primary and secondary fuel filters and oil drain tube, so when you open the door it swings out over a drain pan easily. hinged with lift off style hinges of course.
the other door will have the tach, oil and water guages, and other related engine controls , with quick connects and lift off style hinges here to.
drive end will have a door and the breaker distribution panel on it, same style hinges
front end will mount a small car rad with electric fan, rear panel to be louvered for cooling air flow
top cover to mount the air cleaner and muffler
so far looks to be a very compact easy to maintain and repair unit, at least that is the plan
what i am trying to do with this thing is to design and build it with easy access and the ability to maintain it
without alot of hassle based on years of having to work on other ill conceived machines. i think i know now
what not to do!
gotta get it, and start fabricating :)
who knows there might even be a market for one of these?
bob g
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Hi Sounds like a plan!
What speed are you planning for the engine?
Dennis
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That sounds like a great plan. I hope you'll keep us updated and take lots of pictures.
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Dennis:
well i am planning on using the thermo king solenoid controller to give it a dual rpm range,
high range to generate power with the st head, engine speed 2200-2400 depends on gear ratio of the pulleys on hand
low range, i am not sure of yet i can reset the TK solenoid stops to get down from the factory setting of 1300rpm so i might
bring it down to 700-800 rpm range, this would still crank the alternators up to around 2000 and the A/C pump to around 1200, which is not
optimal but i can still get around 180 amps charging off the alternators (peak) and ~ 15,000 btu off the A/C compressor at low speed setting
or if i need much more charging and cooling i can hit the switch and bring it up to high speed, and get ~320 amps (peak) and upwards of 40,000 btu off
The a/c pump using r22, although i would not be able to pull all that and the ST head at full output
will take pics and post
bob g
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Hi I know you can slow most compressors and use them at reduced capacity. The only problem I can think of is lubrication at reduced speed. I don't know much abut these particular units. I was thinking about the piston area which gets splash or thrown oil to lube them. Probably will be ok.
Dennis
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Dennis:
thanks for the observation, i think i will be ok at the lower speed as it is still a bit faster than the ~1000 rpm that they run on hd trucks at idle speed.
anyway maybe i should check with York on that one, to be sure, seeing how i have the ability to get it right i may as well do it right the first time,
besides it is usually cheaper that way :)
thanks
bob g
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HI When I first started out there were a number of belt drive comperssors still running. They were adjusted for capacity and life span by adjusting the speed of the compressor with the belt ratio.
The Refrigeration Service Engineers Society among others have a lot of resources available to help you design an A/C system that will work right for you. You should be able to check a friends system for correct pressures to compare to your system. Having an idea of what to look for will help a lot.
Of course I dont know your bacground and I may be telling you how to do what you know well.
Dennis
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picked up the group of thermo king isuzu's today :)
and bought 3 more, makes 10 total, 5 for me and 5 for my business partner,
decided to weigh in the truck with and without engines, to divide and see what they weigh
they come in at 610 lbs each!,,,, heavy little bastards for only being 2 liter, wow.
for the life of me, i cannot see where they get that much iron in such a small package.
prehaps the added iron is where they get such good life?
bob g
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Any runners?
Peace&Love :D, Darren
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dunno about any runners yet, took all damn day to make 3 trips just to get them all moved to the shop, hope to have a bit of time to try and start some in the morning.
the yard we got them has an onan, 4 cylinder diesel genset, 12kwatt,,, looks pretty sweet, 12 wire head so it can be setup in a few different configs, and has the heat exchanger exhaust manifold too,, would make for a sweet cogen.
price 750 bucks! not bad for a good solid runner.
we are near on 40 engines in our collection now,, gotta stop collecting and start putting them together. :)
bob g
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mobile bob: Does that Onan gen set look like it might be military? There are some apparently new, surplus mil. that are a 4 cyl Onan diesel air cooled driving a 10 kw 120/240 vac 1 phase or 120/208 vac 3 phase priced at just over 4 grand at a surplus place I know of. If they are the same it should be a sweet deal.
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this one doesnt appear to be military, it i cream color or offwhite, it is also water cooled, and with the exhaust heat exchangers i would assume
it came off a boat, but not sure
bob g
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Thanks.
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well the first stab at trying to start one of these things,
we hooked up the cables, and tried to roll one over, out came all sorts of dust and rust from the exhaust
my partner thought he would poor a bit of diesel down the intake to lube things up... don't do that.
it only takes about 2 tablespoons to hydrolock an isuzu!
so out came the glow plugs,and cranked it over to clear its throat, back in with the plugs
then prime the fuel injection system, bled off water and crap fromthe pump,,, bad news, :(
but eventually got it to start and run, blew out all sorts of crap, and cleared right up... the govenor is sticky
and the engine likes to hunt, so the pump will have to be gone thru.
oil pressure 60-65 psi cold, and no blow by, so am hopefull that this one can be saved as is.
now we have to do the same on another one so we have two to mock up a couple of gensets with, and then the others
will be sorted, and see which have the most promise for major overhauls.
the little guy runs amazingly smooth, and relatively quiet even without a muffler.
got more controls on it than one can count, all sorts of protection circuits, etc. and they have real rubber grommet style
motor mounts.
should be a sweet engine to work with.
bob g
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Congrats on the runner! Sounds like a ton of fun.
Peace&Love :D, Darren
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the yard we got them has an onan, 4 cylinder diesel genset, 12kwatt,,, looks pretty sweet, 12 wire head so it can be setup in a few different configs, and has the heat exchanger exhaust manifold too,, would make for a sweet cogen.
price 750 bucks! not bad for a good solid runner.
Bob,
Can you reveal the location of your secret engine yard? I'm waaaay behind on my genset and the weather is changing. I'm looking for a good used NG genset.
Also while I'm thinking about it, you have yet to regale us with the tale of George the blacksmith.
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Procrustes :
don't know where you are located but i am finding more and more stuff in the seattle tacoma area.
oh yes,,,, George the blacksmith...
too tired tonight but will relate that one soon,
lol
bob g
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I'm east of Seattle. I haven't a clue where to look around here.
No hurry on George the blacksmith. I hope it's as good as the story about the Russian guy.
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call us crazy, but my business partner picked up 12 more thermo king isuzu's today, total now 22!
he figures they were worth the price in core parts, injector pumps, manifolds etc.
good god we are beginning to look a bit sick :(
lol
bob g
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SOo..................Are you offering them for sale?
Dennis
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at this point not yet, many are siezed from poor storage, or most are seized anyway.
they have been sitting somewhat under cover for about 5 years or so, and being in the pacific nw, they are a bit dry of lube
and i am sure rusty in the bores,
we are soaking a few and will free them up and see how many are runners and how many are core engines for rebuild.
bob g