Lister Engine Forum

Lister Engines => Listeroid Engines => Topic started by: veggie on January 08, 2019, 05:23:46 PM

Title: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: veggie on January 08, 2019, 05:23:46 PM

If you teach new students this type of manufacturing, you will get more of .... this type of manufacturing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6Bd7JczBMU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6Bd7JczBMU)
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: LowGear on January 10, 2019, 11:26:32 AM
Very neat video.  I wonder when it was filmed? 

Men; Go this way in your black tops and Ladies; Go this way in your pink tops.  Aside from the interesting cultural difference that's a lot of twins and a boat load of singles.  Where in the world are they going?  Not to the USA.  I wonder if there are any distribution data available?
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: John (Boston) on January 10, 2019, 05:31:42 PM
Yes, a very cool video.  I assume most of those engines were for domestic (Indian) use.  Somewhere I read that it's only a small number that get exported.  Not sure where I read that but I guess it makes sense.

I remember seeing a video of them casting things right in the "ground".  I think they were casting air cooled Petteroid cylinders.  If I recall it shows them breaking up scrap iron by hand with sledge hammers (big truck engines and stuff like that).  Then it shows them melting and skimming, and pouring into the "ground" with a big two-man ladle.  These guys are hard workers.

The company I work for once got a job machining big cast iron parts.  The rough castings were from India.  I remember someone asking the machinist how it was cutting the iron.  He said, "It's not too bad until you hit a file".  We weren't sure there were actually files in there but those castings certainly had inclusions.  You could see them plain as day in the cut.  And, I guess they would ruin the tool on some of them.  I always thought of this when looking at my flywheels.

-John (Boston)
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: mikenash on January 10, 2019, 06:15:29 PM
Like cutting into a big old Macrocapa hedgerow tree and hitting a steel fence standard from 40 years ago with the new chain on your Jonsered
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: 38ac on January 10, 2019, 08:25:44 PM
Yes the iron quality is spotty at best.  I have run into flywheels that are so hard at the rim that they  refuse a carbide  end mill. 

I wonder  when they add the sand to the crankcase?????  I didn't notice any laying about in the video ;D
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: glort on January 10, 2019, 09:48:23 PM

The vid didn't show their high tech precision engineering of pounding the gibb keys into the flywheels with Sledges.
I wonder how they managed to leave something impressive like that out??
Camera man probably didn't understand the Finer Subtleties of their injun ear ring prowess.

I wonder if there is a set of Micrometers, Verniers or a Dial Gauge ANYWHERE in that whole damn factory?
Why do I think it is Doubtful?  ::)

Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: John (Boston) on January 11, 2019, 03:25:47 PM
Actually, somewhere I saw a video of the jib key setting as well.  Poor engines.  They were positively ramming the keys in.  These were smaller engines - maybe petteroids - and each blow of the hammer rocked the engine sideways.  I'm surprised they don't crack the crank case.

One of my keys is stuck (can't get it to budge) and after seeing the video I became concerned about stress risers at the square corners of the slot in the flywheel.  That's a lot of force on a taper that doesn't even fit to begin with.  The key I got out had a shim wrapped around it, painted green so probably a factory "repair".  I fitted a new key to that side the best I could.  Took a lot of careful filing to get good contact.

On the sand, they probably won't show that.  It's a trade secret :)

They only showed a little blip of a load test.  I saw a better video of the test - pretty interesting.  If I recall they use a water cooled wrap of heavy rope on a drum to apply a load.  Looks like they can vary the load and even maybe measure it in terms of pull on the rope.

-John (Boston)
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: BruceM on January 11, 2019, 10:11:40 PM
The sand secret is shown, you just missed it.  The same "test run" oil is used over and over, without filtration, in crankcases that were made and "finished" on dirt floors, with no pressure washing of the crankcases after casting. They left out the video of dirt floor, cottage parts manufacturing there in Rajkot and the absence of sand cast parts cleaning.  The assembler in the video is pretending to be a manufacturer, but has zero QC of incoming parts.




 



Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: 32 coupe on January 12, 2019, 04:20:25 AM

and then there is this guy

Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: ajaffa1 on January 12, 2019, 05:50:04 AM
Wonder if this guy was one of the students? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B34BmTqWg4
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: ajaffa1 on January 12, 2019, 05:57:15 AM
As if beating a piston into the cylinder with a four pound hammer wasn`t bad enough, this guy decides to change the injector pump element in a field! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAvY_Q70kOw
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: BruceM on January 12, 2019, 06:53:30 AM
I have great sympathy for these poor workers and the conditions they work in.  It's a pity that the quality culture of Rajkot was not able to change even with great encouragement and effort by a number of US importers in the pre-ban era.  I'm greatful  that they are able to continue to make Lister CS parts.  I thank my lucky stars I was not born poor in India.

Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: mikenash on January 12, 2019, 07:11:59 AM
Wonder if this guy was one of the students? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B34BmTqWg4

All those years I've had a couple of those steel foot-rules in the toolbox & never knew what they were for . . .
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: old seagull man on January 12, 2019, 08:21:00 AM
Ok since we seem to be sharing videos.

This is for all my new friends who have just rebuilt a ST5 Generator head, and helped me do mine, or have ever worked on one.

This was my secret guide to rebuilding Mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2SK9xDnXjc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2SK9xDnXjc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2SK9xDnXjc)

Remember these are professionals, and "Nobody should try this at home".
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: ajaffa1 on January 12, 2019, 08:55:14 AM
Oh sh1t OSM. I do hope you followed my approach rather than theirs.

Bob
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: ajaffa1 on January 12, 2019, 09:25:14 AM
Hey BruceM, I do hope that you don`t think that I was being disparaging about the two men in the videos, I wasn`t. Poverty is a curse and we should do everything to eradicate it, that said, I have traveled through India and found it to be one of the richest cultures I have seen, despite the poverty of the people.

Education is everything, in these situations, and India is beating the rest of the world with it`s educational standards at present. I am sure that India will become the next industrial power house with standards to rival any country on earth. 

I just find it frustrating to watch men doing their best in such rotten circumstances, a bit of plastic sheet, some clean rags, a paintbrush and a pint of diesel in an old plastic bucket would have made their lives so much easier and probably extended the engines lives by a considerable margin.

Bob
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: old seagull man on January 12, 2019, 09:29:10 AM
Yes Mate i posted that Just for you.


And Glort, and BruceM and a few others would get a cringe out of it.

I sat there with a die grinder  cleaning out the bearing mounting, and fitting SFK bearings, and loctiting then in place.

The video did make me almost cry, check out the diode bridge used, and the bike is just to, i don't know what.
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: glort on January 12, 2019, 10:38:29 AM
Yeah well I certainly got a cringe out of it.

Put that bearing down in all the crud and then put the seal on it so what is stuck to the grease stays there.
I also picked up on the bridge rectifier. Stopped the vid and went back thinking did I see what I think I just saw??  :o
Wondering what they would want HV DC for?

I'm afraid I have a distinct Distaste for indians. They have a cut corners approach to everything and not just in their own Country. I saw how the neighbour at the last place built his house, He had a run in with the guy doing the foundations because he only wanted to put in half the concrete so save money..... and the guy was a civil engineer and this was his own House!
Yeah, Foundations aren't important.... especially on a 2 story house!  ::)
Of course it got better from there.
I find them penny pinching and not too honest either.  The Neighbor was literally lucky to survive till I moved away. Pushed me so close to breaking point at the worst point of our lives.

One of my best and oldest mates has a passionate dislike for Indians and pays them out at every opportunity and wont do business with them. He Might be called racist if he wasn't Indian himself!   :laugh:
I remember him going off about them to some clients of his calling them for all the muthers under the sun. I'm standing back watching the look on these guys faces.  Finally one one of them asks where he comes from? He says I'm Indian, how to you think I know so much about the bastards and what they are like! They laughed Carl was serious.
 He's very " Anti Indian" in his ways. He is an engineer and a perfectionist.  Says he would never hire an Indian engineer to work for him because they don't know a Slide rule from their ars.... elbow.

That said, I watch Vids like these and I wonder who the real dummys are?  Poor Punjabs working in the dirt using rocks for hammers and screw drivers for everything else or us westerners fussing and being all pedantic about everything with these engines.  They must get some decent service life out of their sand filled Jack hammering engines driving the Dodgy generators full of yak  fat in the bearings and Diodes twisted together for rectifiers or they surely wouldn't/ couldnt do it.
Maybe rebuilding everything every 12 Months is the norm to them and our idea of trying to get 10 years out of something is strange?

They certainly have a mind set to adapt and overcome and make full use of whatever they can get their hands on.
Some of the things they come up with for farming in particular are bloody brilliant if not hysterical at the same time.

I have been watching Vids on the ship breaking yards in Bangalore and other  similar places. A complete and utter stuff up of society, politics, business and everything else on every level.  Go to work to earn money and hope you are not maimed or killed. Force conditions to be improved and the work will go elsewhere leaving thousands out of work in a place where the only work is the shipyards or starvation. If you want to see what hell looks like, I reckon it would look better than those shipyards. 

It's just a complete and utter mess of a profound magnitude with no solution.

Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: LowGear on January 12, 2019, 05:59:30 PM
Irish need not apply.
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: veggie on July 05, 2019, 03:03:31 PM
another visit to the factory. This time it's the Listeroid CS test area...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KYGnEOFSu4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KYGnEOFSu4)
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: LowGear on July 09, 2019, 04:45:03 PM
I've asked it before and I'll ask it again. 

Where the devil are all these engines going?
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: glort on July 09, 2019, 11:06:03 PM

With a Population of over 1.3 Bn Indians, I'd say the local market would be pretty strong before they even got any farther afield to Pakistan and other places.
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: LowGear on July 10, 2019, 03:46:58 PM
Yup, that's a big market.  Amazing.
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: veggie on July 10, 2019, 08:00:42 PM

... and in the local market they end up in places like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRh0TQx6OAA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRh0TQx6OAA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hqLPiuFhlU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hqLPiuFhlU)



Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: glort on July 10, 2019, 11:37:57 PM

There seems to be a big push for solar Pumping now.
Gubbermint is offering subsidies for purchase and install which is the hurdle. Running costs of course are free.  Interestingly, one of the big engine makers , Kiroslar is one of the companies pushing solar pumping.

Where the solar is not in the middle of fields,  closer to homes it can provide running water to the household which a lot of indian rural places still don't have and the power when not used for pumping can be put to work for Refrigeration, TV/ radio etc.  With a battery they can also do away with Kero lamps at night .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA0VNGXJnyk

Watching some of these vids makes one laugh. They have the latest Hi tech Solar tracker setups with electronic controllers...... Which are Laying in the dirt along with the switching with the wires just bare and twisted together and various bits of old cable also twisted together running to the pump.

You can change the equipment but never the culture. Somewhere between the pedantic safety sissys and the havne't got a clue/ couldn't give a damn farmers, I suspect there is a happy medium.
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: LowGear on July 11, 2019, 10:57:02 AM
Actually glort; I didn't see any tracking mechanism that isn't hand wrench dependent. 

We are funny animals.  One of us sees a backward society/culture while another sees life giving water flowing at a wonderful rate without much noise and most likely without stench or risk of petroleum contamination.

No cooling tanks in veggies links?
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: glort on July 11, 2019, 12:59:11 PM

We are funny animals.  One of us sees a backward society/culture while another sees life giving water flowing at a wonderful rate without much noise and most likely without stench or risk of petroleum contamination.

Quite the opposite in fact.
I mentioned the benefits of refrigeration, TV and lighting this would give as well as the elimination of running costs. My comments as to what you translate to berating what you extrapolate to be a backward society were a comment on cultural behaviours. If this was done in the US, ( or most first world countries) any installation would probably cost 10X as much, take 10X as long to get approvals etc, be 10X as complicated to meet the standards of a safety brainwashed culture and there would inevitably be all sorts of fees and taxes levied for having the facility and pumping the water.

You tell me who the backward society is.

And one thing that really struck me and I would think might be apparent to an environmentaly concerned and outspoken person like yourself is the Bigger picture in all of this.
 Sure, water pumped cheaply and quietly that increased production and has side benefits. Beyond that though, this is a significant step to taking these 3rd world people who live low impact and highly sustainable lifestyles a big step closer to the first world with all it's luxury, waste and huge unsustainable impact.

There are probably more resources, energy and emissions tied up in those solar setups than everything else combined those families own or will own in their lifetimes. It's all well and good for these people, they probably haven't even heard of global warming, emissions or anything else ( lucky sods!)  but for those whom are concerned about the planet and future generations in the first world, this isn't as great on a global scale as it is on a localised one.

These people now have power. FREE POWER.
Won't take long and they will wake up they can hook up an old car radio at the well.  Next it will be lets put one of these on the house because we have more disposable income now we aren't paying a significant amount of our earnings on fuel and we can buy a TV.  And a Fridge and maybe a low voltage slow cooker..... maybe in 10 years they can get a cheap little EV made by Tata to replace the Nano they couldn't afford to run. But they have solar and ship loads of sunshine so they can afford to elevate their lifestyle and run one of these to take their cops to market and get around like never before.

And so it goes.  All very good for them and I wish them an easier life BUT, for those whom are talking about reducing Co2 and concerned about global warming,  it's an increase in consumption of resources with an increase in emissions and no doubt population.
China will crank up a bit more to supply the demand, more resources and emissions used, india gets a waste problem increase from within it never had before and hey presto, a whole load of first world problems just hit the 3rd world a bit harder and the well being of the planet just took a step backwards.

There is more to the end game of this than just the benefits to some poor farmers living in wherethefukarewe. And just to make sure I'm not accused of seeing anything else I do, I'm playing devils advocate here because I don't  share the Globull warming alarmism.  What's going to happen will happen and this is a perfect example of why. I'm merely pointing out the huge contradiction in the 2 causes. The improvement of peoples lifestyle and the bigger picture that creates down the line.

There is a LOT of people in India, upgrading their traditional life style is very likely to have knock on effects at odds with what the first world is arguing for now and for future generations. 
If the first world wants to reduce Co2 emissions and make everything more sustainable, it's going to have a hell of a job on it's hands when maybe 500 Million or a Billion people in the 3rd world ( all the 3rd worlds) start ramping up their consumption toward first world levels which they were trying to reduce and putting more of a drag on the planet.  And of course what's the very first thing this higher prosperity is going to bring these 3rd world countries...... You got it, More damn kids and a an increase in population!
Just what they and the rest of the planet needs!

Now what was it I didn't see??  ::)
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: LowGear on July 12, 2019, 03:28:04 PM
 8)
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: Fig on August 15, 2019, 03:43:03 PM
Pretty much as I imagined it. I bought one of these listeroids 15 years ago. I went to use one of the pry points on it with very slight pressure and the pry point snapped off. I immediately sold it. I kind of wish I had kept it now. They seem to have increased in value.
Title: Re: Students visit a "high tech " assembly plant
Post by: oldgoat on August 16, 2019, 10:50:47 AM
Big difference between the seal at the top of the bore in the original video and this one.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKgItD4f6S8 No wonder dysentery is rife.