Lister Engine Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: glort on December 22, 2018, 12:55:46 PM

Title: Before it's all over.....
Post by: glort on December 22, 2018, 12:55:46 PM

Merry Christmas to every and all.  I hope you have  wonderful Christmas with loved ones and a great new year that brings all you want and more.

As pathetic as it may sound, this place and all of you bring me a lot of comfort and contentment. It's like a sanctuary of right thinking amount a world gone well past mad.
I love to log on here and see a long list of unread topics I can digest, learn from and then bore you all with my rants and carry on.
 I look at other forums and just shake my head in disbelief maybe most of all at the mindset so many have today. While we don't all agree here all the time, I never get that feeling to want to bang my head against a wall at someones way of thinking that shows they have no clue about life, the world and are obviously caught up in PC and modern thinking crap.

I'm sure I cause a few heads to be banged on walls but thanks for putting up with it or even just skipping on by. So many of you I'd like to meet and see you in your natural habitat and some I will make a point to annoy on their doorstep one day.

Thanks Ade for keeping the place going and providing an outlet and an internet family for many of us here.

Merry Christmas and Happy New year to you all!
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: LowGear on December 22, 2018, 04:00:41 PM
Ahhhhhhhhhh, Merry Christmas to whoever is holding glort.  And the rest of you as well.

.............??

I'm not paying any ransom.  Oh yeah; Happy New Year as well.

]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIWHWjddGsQ[url] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIWHWjddGsQ[url)[/url]

Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: Johndoh on December 22, 2018, 04:16:57 PM
Happy Christmas to you and your family Glort and all the best for 2019

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

Max Ehrmann
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: dax021 on December 22, 2018, 06:42:43 PM
Ditto to all of that,
Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: dieselspanner on December 22, 2018, 09:47:21 PM
All the best from the Pyrenees, keep it coming in '19!

Cheers
Stef
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: glort on December 22, 2018, 10:06:34 PM

I'm not paying any ransom.

Oh come on Casey, I know you don't mean that.  Underneath that hard as stone exterior, I know inside you are just a Pussycat and a decent human being.  You are the sort of fella that would be the first in line to contribute to anything that would ensure anyone's well being if they were in a situation.

Much as you probably don't want to admit it, even if it was me being held hostage I know you would pony up to make sure any of your fellow man was out of harms way. You would be probably the first one to start a thread to raise money on my behalf to ensure they kept me as long as possible and got a regular payment for every  week they kept me locked up with a bonus payment if they did away with me all together and mailed you my fingers.
Just a heads up, There will only be 9. I lost one as a baby getting into things I should not have been touching even then. 

You'd probably have no trouble raising millions for a cause like that and I could see how it would be one of those crowd funding things that asked for $100K and got $10M in contributions. Over night! You wouldn't be the only one to be happy for me to be locked up or disappear
 that's for sure! Just charge a 10% admin fee and you could do OK out of it!
You could call it the "Save the forum from Glort fund."  I'll bet people would sell their houses to donate to that one!!  :0)

Perfectly understandable!  :-[
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: glort on December 22, 2018, 10:13:51 PM
Happy Christmas to you and your family Glort and all the best for 2019

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

Max Ehrmann

Thanks Mate, same to you and yours.

You are right, the world is beautiful, I'll try to remind myself of that more often.

I'm sitting here eating breakfast and the Mrs has the Christmas music blasting and is dancing around the house. She's yelling at me to liven up and get in the mood.
Unfortunately  I misinterpreted which mood she meant and got a smack in the head to correct my mistake.  :embarassed:
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: LowGear on December 22, 2018, 10:19:34 PM
Ok glort, you got me,

The last friend that was being held in London because his wallet had been stolen and he couldn't pay his hotel bill - I did offer to send $14.37 by regular mail.  They didn't send me an address?

We are in "the season" now so I don't wear red when I go to town.  "No lady, no one has ever asked me if I play Santa?"  "My PO won't let me."

Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: glort on December 22, 2018, 10:33:24 PM

I did some " Unique" Christmas lights out the front.
Got some IBC's and put coloured gells on flood lights inside so they glow. Got an LED driving light bar and covered that in cellophane and Shone that up into our big tree out the front to light it up. Can be see a long way off streets back.

I also got some gels and put it in the coach lights out the front verandah.
Mrs pointed out the red I used has certain other Connotations that did not occur with my mindset of Christmas lights.

Can't be alltogether a bad thing if blokes start turning up on the doorstep with pockets full of money can it??

Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: Johndoh on December 22, 2018, 11:10:34 PM
I bought a Lister AC1 OR AD1 not sure which yet attached to a pump on a trolley for 60.00 Its a present from me to me almost stolen its electric start and there's some type of seized belt drive compressor on the front that's connected to the air intake. I might start a new thread on this machine sorry I reverted to diesel talk so quickly Glort!
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: ajaffa1 on December 23, 2018, 06:47:45 AM
Merry Christmas to you all, here`s a video link that then green washed are going to hate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0W1ZZYIV8o

You can`t alter the facts and figures so I guess we`ll have to stick with diesel for now  :laugh:

Bob
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: glort on December 23, 2018, 08:35:46 AM
sorry I reverted to diesel talk so quickly Glort!

Mate, it's a Christmas story and quite a good one! Bargains are always great to find.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: cujet on December 27, 2018, 01:21:32 AM
'Twas the night before Christmas and all along the border
The illegals were stirring, no papers in order
A wall was prevented by democrats who "care"
In hopes that their new voters will soon be there....
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: BruceM on December 27, 2018, 03:17:48 AM
The idea of a wall is appealing in concept for those who haven't really studied the southern border, or visited the communities that straddle the boarder, most in complete peace and harmony and without criminals.  Big Bend National park is just one area that helps explain why it is not so simple, and is likely a huge waste of money.

Border security could be improved greatly in many other ways, for a whole lot less.  Cut the spending on nuclear weapons upgrades and you could fund it easily and a whole lot more.

The military secures area 51 and many other large secure facilities extremely well without building massive walls. 

I don't want my tax money (and the future debt put on niece's and nephew's children) squandered on ill considered fantasies. We are running a HUGE deficit, value of my fixed income and savings keeps falling, and my food bill keeps rising.

There are many bigger threats.






Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: glort on December 27, 2018, 04:29:37 AM

I have to admit, as an outsider, I do not understand why there would be any protest to a country securing it's borders?  I'll upset people some more by also saying I can't understand why there is so much trump bashing.  As far as US presidents go, he seems to be doing pretty well to me. hasn't been in some illicit relationship with a secretary or someone, rather than starting any wars he's trying to pull troops out of one and by all the measures of Employment, economic growth etc, the place seems to be doing better than it has been in a long time.
 I said that to some one the other day and they insisted that was because of Obama.    ::) Yeah, whatever.

Perhaps a wall as in the great wall of China or a max security prison may not be the best option ( or even what is in Mind) but the hysterics I have seen about the " inhumanity" of even the concept of essentially securing the border perplexes me.
There are from what Little I know Checkpoints on the roads in and out that are heavily survived and checked, patrols trying to keep people on the right side of the chain or 3 wire cattle fence as I saw in a doco the other day so why not make a proper job of securing the border all the way along?
It might be cheaper in the long run from the manpower POV let along the social Issues and costs of having thousands of Illegals coming into the place every year. I I want to come to the US for a fortnights Holiday it's a drama to get a visa and I probably own't if I have had a serious traffic fine in the last 5 years and a person will probably get the rubber glove treatment at the airport.

Why have all this at the front door but no back fence or back door and have people strolling on in? Makes no sense to me. 

I'm not racist, I hate everyone equally, but lets face it, the influx of illegals from the south IS a big problem in the US. I cannot see how anyone can have a problem with a country controlling who it lets in and who it does not. Wonder what these do gooder bleeding heart whingers against this would say if a bunch of people rocked up and took over their yard.  I bet it wouldn't have to happen too many times before they put up their own "wall" to keep control of whom entered their land.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: Johndoh on December 27, 2018, 08:50:41 AM
Israel built a huge wall between them and Palestine doesn't seem to have done much good the Palestinians are tunnelling under it and they  aren't tunnelling to Israel for jobs picking fruit or cleaning offices. It's technology that's finding the tunnels.
Ireland is a very small country with a land border with the UK of 300 odd miles. In March there will be a border of sorts not a hard border but a technological border with cameras, drones and satellites.
Hadrians wall, The walls of Jericho, the great wall of China all vanity projects that were breached. It's medieval technology like the trebuchet and nobody thinks they are the first weapon of choice for 100's of years. Of course walling people out means you wall yourself in.
Glort the man is a liar, a womaniser, a cheat and a megalomaniac
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: glort on December 27, 2018, 01:47:04 PM
Glort the man is a liar, a womaniser, a cheat and a megalomaniac

Most of that is likley true.
He's a politician so being a liar is a basic pre requisite.  Cheat, much the same and megalomaniac, well I would say that was automatically be defined by running for president.

As for womanizer..... well that's a precedent set  back in the Bill and Monica daze isn't it?

Few months ago I was up with Dad and we were watching some american report like 60 Minutes or something.  There were  4 women all making these claims about trump and how he had hurt their feelings 30 years back and what a bastard he was etc.

First woman is saying he touched her up at some event when she was working for him. They show a pic of him introducing her to some people and he has his hand in the small of her back lightly and she's looking at the picture in tears trying to tell the reporter how traumatize that left left her because of him groping her like that and this is the actual incident.  There are people back and front  of them and the way she is going on is just ridiculous.  Turns out she was so tramatised she kept working for him and seeing him daily for the next 8 years or something
Dad and I are looking at each other Saying WTF???

Next one reckons he put the hard word on her 25 years ago when she was actually half decent looking and I'll bet she was propositioned 5 times a day back then. But of course that was something she was too upset to talk about before but now he's president and she voted for Hitlary,she now had to speak out about it.  Yeah right.


Another one said she didn't like the way he once spoke to her at some event again years back and and made an inappropriate Joke...  which clearly sounded like a modern standard of calling someone a cripple  or an old age pensioner when it was common, everyday language before the PC whingers went mad.

The last one had Dad and I in stitches.
She is going on about how he looked at her and made her feel like a piece of meat. Again the tears and dramatics and this one look had ruined her life and ability to function as a productive member of society etc.  She names the function, back in 1987 or something and they bring up the photo.
There is the woman with the left one and the right one about to come bursting out and give the man 2 black eyes. and a concussion as they reached escape velocity.

  In the picture he appears to be looking down at them, probably in fear or wondering who the hell let this hooker into the receiving line of people he had to greet.  She is standing ther,e barley constrained Bossum putting the test to the thread in her almost there dress and looking at him smiling like the Cheshire cat.

Of course begs the question, if she didn't want to be looked at like a piece of meat why dress like that in the first place and go to so much attention to make herself so obvious and clearly seek attention in such a way?
There wouldn't have been a man or WOMAN on the planet, least straight ones, that wouldn't have been looking at her.... most of them thinking " WTF is wrong with this woman dressing like that at a black tie Function?"

I said to Dad, if this is the worst they can throw at the guy, he must have been pretty decent or pretty clever.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: LowGear on December 27, 2018, 05:34:06 PM
glort, glort, glort,

Just accept you don't get it.  Just as surely as I don't understand, I mean I don't get his supporters.  Life has mysteries. 

How about that heat wave in the South.  Yup!  It's Trumps fault.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: basewindow on December 27, 2018, 10:52:23 PM
President Kennedy and Marilyn Monroe springs to mind. Any male born before 1990 would be classed as a womaniser now. The mainstream media hates Trump over here, not a day goes by when there isnt a Trump ridicule story on each TV channel and probably a dozen on the Left wing dominated ABC. Some ppl just cant handle that he actually got in and that he and the majority of others seem to have a different opinion to theirs. So they wage a war of character assassination dredging up crap from 20 or 30 years before, judging yesterdays standards by todays PC rubbish. You only have to watch a show over here on ABC  called Q&A to see what a PC fantasy land these fools live in, and want or demand the rest of us should live in as well. University educated, never held a real job in their lives and living off the welfare of the rest. Makes we want to reach into the TV and give them the well deserved belt around the head they need. Rant over. Gone bit off topic.  Merry Christmas all.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: Johndoh on December 28, 2018, 12:06:16 AM
President Kennedy and Marilyn Monroe springs to mind. Any male born before 1990 would be classed as a womaniser now. The mainstream media hates Trump over here, not a day goes by when there isnt a Trump ridicule story on each TV channel and probably a dozen on the Left wing dominated ABC. Some ppl just cant handle that he actually got in and that he and the majority of others seem to have a different opinion to theirs. So they wage a war of character assassination dredging up crap from 20 or 30 years before, judging yesterdays standards by todays PC rubbish. You only have to watch a show over here on ABC  called Q&A to see what a PC fantasy land these fools live in, and want or demand the rest of us should live in as well. University educated, never held a real job in their lives and living off the welfare of the rest. Makes we want to reach into the TV and give them the well deserved belt around the head they need. Rant over. Gone bit off topic.  Merry Christmas all.

Trump won the election on the college vote system NOT the popular or majority vote. 56.9% of the people eligible to vote actually voted so trump actually got 27% of the total votes available to registered voters. If there was an election today he would get less than 20%!
Do you think a rape, a robbery a murder or any crime can be overlooked because it happened 20 or 30 years ago?
Finally wanting to reach into a television to physically attach someone that actually has a fuckin brain says a lot about you
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: dax021 on December 28, 2018, 04:49:02 AM
Someone got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning.  No one was speaking about rape or murder.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: dieselspanner on December 28, 2018, 07:14:08 AM
Hey Guys,

I ain't the moderator but I can see where this semi political line could end up. We all know why we value this site so please let it slide.

You can slag me for free, if it helps!!

Cheers
Stef
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: basewindow on December 28, 2018, 11:58:42 AM
Dont agree with you Johndoh, but would fight for you to be able to air your views. Unfortunately over here some ppl only want your opinion as long as its the same as theirs and will do anything to stifle any debate. Anyway it would be a boring world if we all thought the same way. At least we have a few things in common. Old Machinery and diesel and petrol fumes. Wishing all a happy new year and may it rain Listers.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: Johndoh on December 28, 2018, 01:15:09 PM
I dislike all politicians with good reason. In my country we have murderers that oppose abortion, party leaders that get a free 50,000.00 holiday and "forget it", campaigns about "shoot to kill" policies against illegal armies, unemployed barmen with holiday homes, politicians wives giving public money and contracts to their toyboy and so on.
Jeremy Paxman of the BBC said that every time he interviews a politician his first thought is "why is this bastard lying to me"? I think thats a good basis for viewing politicians.
#
Happy new year to you too basewindow, my advice is believe nothing be cynical and if possible be self sufficient you'll get no help from any government if you need it.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: LowGear on December 28, 2018, 04:08:31 PM
I guess I still don't get it.

Political crap deleted.

What the Dickens was this thread about?


Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: Johndoh on December 28, 2018, 05:00:47 PM
That's the beauty of what politicians say lowgear it's all temporary throwaway stuff and quickly forgotten. The only political quote I remember was by Enoch Powell he said all political careers end in failure!
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: glort on December 28, 2018, 05:17:30 PM

And here we are already.
Christmas has once again come and gone for another year and we are looking at New Year rather than Christmas.
The leftovers are all gone and it's back to the regular meals. As usual, Family Christmas get together was Ho Hum, Bocing day get together with friends family was so much fun and really enjoyable.

Back to reality. Daughter wants another birthday party given the success of the last one and the popularity with  her friends coming out here.  Told her she can have one if she keeps the guest numbers under control and does not leave all the work to her mother and I.
My fathers birthday is the week after and I'm in a couple of minds what to do for that. Don't know if we should have something at a local Club or at home and just make it a low key thing with whatever family can show or  extend it and invite all the local Friends.  It's bad timing abd I know he won't want a fuss but at the same time would enjoy seeing everyone.

Always seems to be something on the horizon and another thing to get though.  Felt the same last year, Christmas, parties, job to be done.
Just occasionally wish I could hit the pause button on life so there was time to stop and take things in a bit more before they had come and gone again.

I always remember my beloved grandmother who raised me from a teenager by repeating what she would say every Christmas day as all the family would start leaving to go home...... ?Christmas is as far away as ever".

Giess we are a few days closer now and it will seem distant but before long we'll be wondering where the year went.
Hope it's a good one for everyone here  and we are still all here this time next year.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: basewindow on December 28, 2018, 09:31:19 PM
Well maybe Johndoh we agree on more than we both know. Wouldnt trust any Politician as far as I could kick them, or believe anything that comes out of their mouths. And we have the same issues over here with them rorting the system for personal and political gain, overseas junket holidays with the family etc.

Having worked in, lets say a semi 'Public Service' roll for thirty years, I know full well how statistics were manipulated for public consumption, and were manufactured by various means to the conclusion required. As they say, Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.

I guess what I was trying to say about Trump (And failed miserably) was more about the biased reporting or manipulation of the reporting, because of who he is and what he stands for and the double standards they have in that regard in pushing certain agendas. As my son would say he's a bit of a 'Tool' and probably brings alot of it on himself by his stupid 'tweets' and outlandish comments.
Most media here, both commercial or Government is so PC or stacked either way, that the 'truth' is almost impossible to ascertain.

An example is Climate Change. Now logic would suggest there is man made climate change (just look at the smog etc over cities) but such outlandish claims have been made, statistics manipulated and out right lies told, by both sides for political gain, that average joe just cant make an informed decision.
Guess we all get frustrated because they cant see the Forest fir the trees.

Thats why we are old grumpy men, who would rather talk to our machines, and seek solice in our man sheds, and the cathartic feel of bringing the past back to life. Certainly makes me feel better.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: oldgoat on December 29, 2018, 02:29:44 PM
Well the Insurance Industry believe in climate change, their actuary's have already adjusted premiums to suit. I just hope they haven't miscalculated the speed that it is happening otherwise after the next bushfire,flood( insert appropriate disaster here) the premiums will go crazy.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: basewindow on December 29, 2018, 09:13:33 PM
Yep Oldgoat, thats what I mean, everyone's jumping on the bandwagon, to make a profit or to push an agenda.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: Johndoh on December 29, 2018, 09:44:06 PM
It's 9.45 pm in Ireland and 11c it should be less than 5c
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: glort on December 29, 2018, 09:45:43 PM
Globull warming and environmental issues are all about Profit and revenue. You won't see a single initiative by big biz or gubbermints that don't make them money in some way.
Greatest cash cow of all time.  Ride on the back of a noble cause the sheeple are all brainwashed to believe and won't argue with and you have it made.

One of my favorite scams is "green" electricity.  It's supposedly generated from renewable sources. Oddly enough, there are no second sets of power lines, it comes on the same lines all the other power does.  You pay extra for it (of Course) but somehow you get the green power and the guy next door gets the dirty, filthy coal generated power......   ::)
Biggest worry with all this is that people fall for it and are that damn stupid to swallow this crap.

Generating my own "Green" renewable, clean power from all my used panels is against regulations though on a bunch of levels.
The main one being they aren't making any profit out of it.

Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: glort on December 29, 2018, 09:52:09 PM
It's 9.45 pm in Ireland and 11c it should be less than 5c

 Got to be happy with that!
 No one likes the cold and all the trees and plants do so much better when it's warm rather than freezing and that's a great thing for the environment.
Make the most of it, Probably won't be long and we'll be seeing reports of Europe being Frozen under 30 Ft of snow like last year or the year before whenever it was.
People probably be pretty happy to get a bit of warming then!
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: basewindow on December 29, 2018, 10:55:12 PM
35 degrees, here i  Gosford today. Must be Global warming.  Nope, just summer.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: ajaffa1 on December 30, 2018, 09:09:44 AM
A very comfortable 32 degrees here today, night time temperatures around 17 degrees. I am not a believer in the government/business sponsored BS about global warming. The planet has been warming up since the last ice age, presumably it will start to cool down as we go into the next one (this has been going on since before mankind). My guess is that the same bunch of lame politicians will then try to blame me for Global Cooling and jack up my taxes again to combat it. Wonder if I will be able to claim back the money we paid to combat Global Warming?

Bob
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: oldgoat on December 30, 2018, 01:37:13 PM
The biggest problem seems to be the rate at which it is warming it appears to be occuring over a period of hundreds of years rather than thousands. The ability of us to breed grain crops and other food sources to may be a bit of a problem. Many of the glaciers are a form of water storage. Most of them are in inaccesible places not conducive to building dams and we don't seem to have a solution for that at the moment. Probably the most dramatic has been the Muir glacier in Alaska where  more than 200 ft thick ice has retreated approximately 50 km. That is a lot of water that is no longer stored.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: basewindow on December 30, 2018, 09:47:29 PM
But is that a bad thing?  You could say that a lot of water has released for use, land released for use? Im no climate scientist but does it have to mean doom  and disaster? Some areas may become less appealing or less usefull, but other areas once uninhabitable will become habitable and useful. Humans are a very adaptable species, the climate has changed multiple times over the period humans have been on the planet.
Id be more worried about overpopulation which in essence is really causing the issues. But nobody wants to tackle that because its not PC. If you really want to talk about long term sustainability, then its something that will eventually need to be looked at.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: ajaffa1 on December 30, 2018, 11:29:52 PM
+1, Basewindow. We need to tackle over population, if we don`t nature will!

Bob
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: Johndoh on December 30, 2018, 11:38:37 PM
I use "green" electricity. Yes it's a little more expensive and yes it comes through the same wires however it's generated with wind and by burning willow. Every person that uses green electricity means there is a little less oil or coal burnt. Thats how it is supposed to work. The people that are "going on" about climate change aren't big businesses and governments they currently don't give a stuff and only do token things to try to look good. It's ordinary people, people that want there to be a useable planet here for their children and grandchildren. It does matter a lot if the ice caps melt, most people now live in large urban centres ie towns and cities. These are usually located near large rivers or close to the oceans. That's where the most arable land is as well as well. Raise the oceans a foot (remember the planet has much more water than land) and we will be overrun with King Canute types fleeing to higher ground, ground which is less arable and has less useable water. The ground is already warmer this makes the moisture evaporate and fall as rain in the middle of the oceans at the same time it makes the soil less useful for growing stuff. We can't feed, or choose not to feed everyone on the planet now. Imagine the oceans rising displaces 1/7 of the planes population that's over a billion people.
Many of the immigrants trying to get into America are going there because for the third year in a row the rain didn't come and their crops failed. It's already started and we really have only a short time to fix things. If we don't we are condemning our descendants to a life of misery poverty and want. Their descendants are likely to be nuclear survivors moving from oasis to oasis on camels!
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: ajaffa1 on December 31, 2018, 12:01:17 AM
I agree with you and admire your small contribution to the solution.

The trouble is that nearly every government on earth has racked up huge debt, the only way to service these debts is by increasing population and per capita consumption/expenditure.

Here in Australia the government has actually posted a budget surplus for the first time in decades. Their primary income comes from the mining and export of fossil fuels and metal ores. Can`t see the politicians voting to kill off that golden goose any time soon.

When fire, flood and famine become the norm they may start to pay attention.

Bob
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: BruceM on December 31, 2018, 01:13:31 AM
The US military is planning on global breakdown of society as people starve from climate change.  You think lower middle class Americans are angry and irrational now from being squeezed dry, just wait.

The concern raised by serous scientists is that as Johdoh suggests, food and water supplies will be threatened and we can't move a billion people, and people get pretty angry and irrational when starving.  In the US we have been growing food and low value crops like short staple cotton on 2000 year old ground water tables that will be depleted soon enough.  The hominid primate is not capable of controlling his own population- and few realists think our present population is sustainable.

The climate scientists are concerned about unknown environmental tipping points that speed up the process.  Glacier ice melt rates are going much faster than predicted and thus they are calling for immediate action. 

The Petro corps. have spent a lot of money on disinformation campaigns to continue to maximize their profits per their charters, and they may have cost our great grandkids dearly. 

Somehow we have to find a way to stop with the wars, and turn our "democracies" into more than corporate funded puppets. I sure don't have a clue how that might happen.  Money seems to always find a way around.  I don't know how public funded elections have worked out elsewhere, but that might be a start.

Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: glort on December 31, 2018, 08:39:49 AM

Christmas is already all over. Goes so fast!

Happy New year to one and all.
I hope you each have a healthy, fun, content and safe 12months and beyond ahead and it is a good year, devoid of any sadness or pain and filled with good times and great memories.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: Johndoh on December 31, 2018, 09:18:27 AM
There is a really bad television show in the UK called the Jeremy Kyle show, women seem to watch it as people humiliate themselves with lie detector tests and DNA tests etc. My wife was talking about one show where a white married couple were on and the wife had given birth to a brown baby. The wife was insisting that the husband was the father saying he looked like the child and she wasn't cheating. Of course science in the form of a DNA test proved she wasn't being truthful, the husband was  in denial saying he was the father.
My point? The evidence was in front of the husband but he didn't want to believe his eyes and chose to believe the denials of reality from the wife. The family member that was saying "stop, this isn't right" was scorned and derided.
As a climate change analogy it's not great but that's what's happening. I'm betting that husband continued to be "daddy" continued to believe the wife continued to deny what he could see.
I know my last post was a bit doom and gloom but I do have hope for the future. I been reading about people in Ireland objecting to solar farms in Ireland one objection being there's no way to store the electricity. Why not treat solar power the way we are treating the planet and just use it as it's generated and wind down the power plants during periods when solar is generating even on a micro level it would help I believe. I rent this house the landlord has looked into solar panels for heating water but he's not interested in jumping through planning department hoops.. I can't legally install a wind turbine larger than a bicycle wheel without planning permission, permission I'm not likely to get. I am sure there is switching technology available that would make the power switching seamless. I also want a hydrogen powered car!

Happy new year gentlemen
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: oldgoat on December 31, 2018, 11:06:58 AM
I've done my bit for overpopulation had my vasectomy forty years ago.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: LowGear on December 31, 2018, 04:44:50 PM
So many more believers than there was ten years ago.  No significant ice on the fish pond in forty years woke me up about 20 years ago.  I can remember watching my 200 pound father skating on it in 1951.

I think few people don't realize that sustainable power generation is the future.  Why does anyone continue to support unsustainable anything?  What part of unsustainable don't they get? 

When you reduce usable land by 10% and increase population by 10% how much have you really changed opportunities?  This century is going to be a wild and crazy ride.  Is Bangladesh the future of human existence?  Ocean front is now a property liability.  Countries already have two land mass measurements - Tide In vs Tide Out.

Just how crazy is it?  glort just left a positive hopeful post.  Yikes!  Yup, continental flooding is just around the corner.



Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: mikenash on December 31, 2018, 07:14:47 PM
Yeah, well, living on some small islands in the middle of a big ocean is always thought-provoking . . .

All the best for 2019, guys  :)
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: BruceM on December 31, 2018, 07:26:12 PM
The weather extremes affect on farming and food prices is the big "oh shit", I suspect.  Food is right after air and water for essentials.

I'm interested in a year round passive solar greenhouse, but the summer months here require evaporative cooling, which isn't easy if you're EMF sensitive and need 26 feet from a 1/2 hp motor and small lift pump. Off grid adds to the cost and complexity as well.  A friend with a good passive solar design now growing in dirt (aquaponics for many years ) is only "storing" vegetables now- we've had too many dark cold days and the plants go dormant with soil temps go to low.  The combination of windy 100F+ single digit humidity spring and summer, and colder, darker winters we are now having is a real challenge for low energy greenhouse design.

Passive solar alone falls flat if your number of consecutive dark days gets bigger than your thermal mass and losses.  Well above freezing, growth stops and plants become susceptible to diseases. 

Most of what I've been able to find on greenhouse design is some pretty pathetic, non-engineered work with little or no real performance data.  Not much funding for real innovation, so far.


Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: basewindow on December 31, 2018, 10:39:16 PM
I've still got hope for the future, and I think we'll get there, we're a very adaptable species. It's more like we're in a transition phase at the moment, change comes slow, but inevitably comes. Just look at the price of a Solar panel now, 8 years ago I paid $400 for my first 120w panel, now the same thing, in fact I think its 140w, i can get for $70 delivered. Battery tech is coming along in leaps and bounds,  electric cars and becoming affordable and practical. Would be helpful if some bright spark could perfect cheap room temp fusion tho.
The youngr generation is pretty in touch with this stuff,  its what they worry about and I think they'll drive the change. We worried about nuclear war, and i think and hope we've overcome and put that behind us,  but Im still a little concerned about the Zombie Apocalypse lol.
Happy New year to all.
Maybe we should change the title of this thread, are we all miss interpreting it as the end of the world!
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: glort on January 01, 2019, 03:59:03 AM
are we all miss interpreting it as the end of the world!

Yeah, I was going to post that  a couple of pages back.... I meant before Christmas was all over, not the end of man kind and the known universe!

A very strange and mysterious thing happened this morning, might have something to do with climate change.
The Mrs got up and started taking down and packing up all the Chrissy Decorations!!! Stunned I was, completely stunned.  Would have sat the woman down and taken her temperature had she not clearly been on such a mission and standing on chair at the time in order to be able to barley reach the top of the door frame where I hung the lights... standing flat footed on the floor from 2 ft back....

Normally the decos  are hanging round till about mid feb but today.....  Strange, Very strange. Meanwhile I have to go out as I planned and take Down all the lights I put in the big tree out the front and my IBC tanks I put colored lights in to look like Chrissy presents.
last night I took all the coloured gels off the lights and just lit it up so bright the reflected light was illuminating the neighbors yard even across the street Diagonally.

There were a lot of cars driving round here looking at the Christmas lights last week and despite the amazing  display the Griswalds put on just up the street, I did see a lot of people stopping out the front here having a look and Kids craning their hears out the window looking up to see where the heck that big tree ended!

Was nice to see my minimal effort was enjoyed by some .
I'll now relocate and set the tanks up for water storage for the garden. 
This weather and non drought like rainfall pattern can't and won't last forever round here.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: glort on January 01, 2019, 06:52:00 AM

I think few people don't realize that sustainable power generation is the future.  Why does anyone continue to support unsustainable anything?  What part of unsustainable don't they get? 

The problem for .... what is it?.... ah, the deniers like me is not that I/we don't get it, but we are not ALLOWED to do anything worth while about it if we wanted to.

Here in oz there are very specific and almost total blanket restrictions on the amount of power you can feed back to the grid from your rooftop PV system.  That's 5 KW.  You MAY be able to jump through a lot of hoops, spend money on special appeals and possibly, and only possibly at best, get permission to install more than 6.6 Kw of panels ( 5Kw + the 133% overclocking/ efficiency makeup) on your roof PROVIDING, you have an inverter that will limit export back to the grid of no more than 5 KW.

Even that is getting extremely difficult to get through now and you have to apply to have ANY feedback and that's getting denied more than it's approved from what I read. there could be MW more power generated right in the cities where it is uesd within a KM or 5 at worst and it would take no land, require no towers or extra sub staitons etc. and would greatly reduce teh fossil fuel powered loads through the day.

The complete and utter BS excuse for this from the power cos is the grid can't handle the back feed.  I personally think that's a crock but the insistence is it's an engineering fact.... which I don't believe but anyway......  There ARE transformers/ controllers available and have been for years that can handle the feedback and keep the varying grid voltages in spec but the simple thing is the power cos won't spend the money to install them.

Now even in my skeptical mind, local generation using rooftops make a truckload more sense than building a solar farm 500Km away and while I do not believe all the clap trap about coal, it's only logical that the less of any consumable resources you can avoid, the better. In this case the question begs why not set up to run off PV during the day when private generation can support so much of the demand and cut back on teh FF generation and then ramp it up as required and is already forecast from previous demand to take over as the PV falls off and be happy with the substantial savings in cost of and savings in emissions?

Money, that's why.  More money in making power hundereds of KM away, limiting what the small scale generation can offset and paying a lot of lip service  to the environmental aspect that actually doing anything meaningful about it.

It's not always a matter of what people Support or understand Casey, it can be a matter of what Gubbermints allow them to  do.


Quote
ust how crazy is it?  glort just left a positive hopeful post.  Yikes!  Yup, continental flooding is just around the corner.

Now don't you go getting used to or spoiled by than now. You and I both know it can't last!  :0)
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: BruceM on January 01, 2019, 07:21:47 AM
I'll bet there's plenty of rural land in Australia with no limits whatsoever on how much PV you can put on your property. Light up the outback, Glort.  Pulling the plug on the power co. where you are might also be an option.  Or getting involved in putting citizens on the power regulatory boards who aren't in the pocket of the power co.

In AZ, the biggest power co., APS, have insured themselves a good deal by openly buying campaigns for two APS puppet corporation commissioners.  They now credit at 12 cents a KWH (for the next 10 years), but bill you about double that for 3PM to 8PM.  A lot of ice storage cooling systems will be added in the next few years, to allow late day A/C running without the stiff price.  There's no limit on the grid tie wattage, yet. 


 






Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: old seagull man on January 01, 2019, 07:53:33 AM
I too am a victim of the 5k rule, and i get a miserly 11 cents for what i give back. If it is not a air-con day, i use about 17kwh a day. 35kwh if its hot, and every air-con is on but on a good summer day i can make 20kwh by midday and 12 in the afternoon, I live in a suburb with street trees, so one side of the house is shaded in the afternoon. But i could send 15kwh back on a good day, and its no like i dont get a bill, shore the kwh charges are tiny, but the supply charge and the metering charge and all the other crap charges, are way more than the power ever is.

So my inverter went bang. and a new one was provided but it more modern and more powerful than the old unit. (Read the model i have is no longer compliant with the current standard so even though i can buy one for $199, i cant, use it, but its exactly the same as the dead one. IT HAS TO BE COMPLIANT AT TIME OF INSTALLATION).

So have given up on the guys from Origin, my most useful and helpful energy supplier, the company that  In fact when the inverter was first setup there  installer screwed up and i was exporting all my excess power.
Not my fault, but i did get a bill for the excess, and a charge for exceeding the aloud grid export amount.

So if your like me consume it all your self, we had the booster for  hot water heater, connected to the inverter, they charge me 13 cent for the off peak electricity that i use , but give me 11 cents.

So the local sparkie dropped in today to leave his fathers seagull outboard for me to fix. and i was having a winge about it all. And told me he had done a job earlier this year and he guy had a bunch of panels he had bought of gumbay or Etree and and a second hand 5kw inverter, just plugged into a power point in the garage. DIY solar, Some homes in QLD have smart meters installed, but there not configured, for implementation later. mine wnt in 10 years ago.  So i wonder how many of these setups there are around the country, and how much power they are producing and sending to the grid? And what chaos and mayhem they are creating.


Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: ajaffa1 on January 01, 2019, 09:22:24 AM
Hi Guys, I think I have a cunning plan. I intend to export all of my solar power to the grid, I will set up a second solar array with an off grid inverter. this will run my home with the Lister CS as backup. I will be independent but still grid connected if I ever need to sell my house, hopefully I can work out how to export excess power generated at night by the CS burning WVO. There is just a chance that the electric company will end up having to pay me rather than the other way around.

Bob
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: glort on January 01, 2019, 09:32:23 AM
And there is yet another and typical example of what makes my blood boil. All this crap about co2 emissions and save the planet yet this is the sort of thing people have forced upon them that makes it all a complete and utter joke.

My entire setup is like your OSM.  Second hand equipment that I have set up and hardwired or plugged in.  I am still fortunate enough to have 2 old spinny meters and unfortunately an early electronic meter on the 3rd phase so I shifted all the circuits bar the AC to the 2 I backfeed.  In winter the cost of just running the one leg of the AC for heating was over $300 on it's own. The way we have been running the air the last week or so, I think it could be more this next quarter.

I -think- I have found a soloution to this. I can't  back feed the electronic meter, it will measure power either way as a charge so what my hopeful work around will be is to pony up for a new inverter that has export limiting on it. This way I should be able to feed the AC what it wants but not  feed any extra that will register as a charge.  If I didn't get any credit for what I sent back i'd be happy and they would make a bonus but now everyone loses.
I'll probably put a light or something on the circuit to keep the inverter on song so it is ready when the AC cuts in.

The whole thing of this compliance is another great crock.  They call it safety standards but what the hell is unsafe about a solar panel?  Whats more, they are on roofs by the hundreds of thousands and that's OK but the minute you want to upgrade, replace an inverter or whatever, they suddenly become dangerous  and you can't refit them and have to replace the whole system.  That's how I have got my whole setup.

If I were in your position, I'd be replacing the inverter and saying nothing and if they asked I'd say a breaker tripped and I didn't realise.  Fk 'em.
The only thing this is a bout is making the gubbermint and the industry money. Forget the environmental impact of throwing away  panels that were supposed to have a 20 year life away after 5-7 years like all mine are, it's all about the money not the lip service.

I did not realise they could charge you for excess grid feedback.  My idea was when my old meters are finally removed as there is a mandate to do, I would look at getting a commercial system and then run it with everything else I have and make some money back with the excess rate, pitiful as it is.
Should have known they would be awake up to any loophole like that! Maybe I can somehow get approval for say a 15 Kw system and only istall 3 and then use what I have to pump back?  I'm guessing that's a long shot as well.

With my hot water, Burce here put me on to Voltage monitoring relays and I have fitted one to my HWS.   It's a voltage activated switch basicaly. It is connected to the normal power circuit rather than the off peak which I changed the circuit from to the normal rate feed and I have it set so when the voltage in the circuit rises a set amount which happens when the inverter starts feeding back, it turns on the water heater.  If a cloud comes over and the output drops, it switches off again. If I have some other heavy load going and there is no excess, it kicks out again till that load drops.
 I have had it on  pretty much the last 12 months and I only had to over ride it 3 days that I can remember when we had a trot of cloudy weather over winter. That's just press a button and it powers the heater up again.

My heater is big enough to give us 3 days reserve supply and even if it does not get up to full temp, I have found that it often gets enough to compensate what we have used so get another day out of it.  really has worked well for me.

You can get new inverters now that will automatically Divert your excess power to the heater first then export if the heater is up to temp or it can go to a pool pump or whatever.
Are you looking to replace the old system or just carry on with the bootleg plug in setup?



Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: glort on January 01, 2019, 10:01:56 AM
I will set up a second solar array with an off grid inverter.

Is this in a true off grid inverter where that runs the house and the inverter you have now is totally isolated so it only feeds back?
I believe a totaly off grid /isolated inverter will require some batteries just as ballast if you like even if not providing any significant reserve capacity.

I would suggest just leave things as they are and add another system, preferably wired/ plugged into an existing circuit.
You could have the second inverter set up to non export  so it would supply all the household needs and also run the main inverter at full tilt for the maximum time possible without going over your export limit.  IE, you might do the full 5 Kw from 9am to 7:30 PM instead of maybe 6 hours now.

Quote
I will be independent but still grid connected if I ever need to sell my house,
If you are connected, setting up the second inverter would save you the cost of batteries if you are thinking to run the house completely independent.  Also eliminate maintence issues.

Quote
hopefully I can work out how to export excess power generated at night by the CS burning WVO.

Rectify the AC to DC from a generator and feed it back to inverter No.1.   Alternatively get a 6-10 Hp 3 phase motor, set it up in a C2C configuration, Rectify and back feed or  you could get a 10Hp induction motor, connect to mains circuit, over drive that, use one leg to go back to the inverter and the other to supply power to the house. 3rd leg really doesn't matter and neither will imbalance.  Going to need at least an 8 Hp engine for that.

 
Quote
There is just a chance that the electric company will end up having to pay me rather than the other way around.

Bob

Seems to be a few people doing that but being legit setups, I have to wonder what they invested in the first place and what the payback time is.
Running a generator though, I have to wonder if it would be worth the hassle and setup expense even on free fuel. Not sure what your export rate is but if you have the best going I know of which is .20C Kwh, if you are putting out 3 Kw, you are making a grand total of .60C hr.  Not sure even a tight arse like me would bother with that.
Time you or you and the Mrs, collect the oil, give it even a rough filter.....  does not seem worth it to me.


Just looking at something, to get round the feedback quota if I get a smartmeter inflicted on me, I could get a 3 kw panel set, Put on a 10 KW inverter, get approval for 10 Kw feedback  and then backfeed from the rest of my setup and still be within their export limits.
I'd cover the roof and exterior walls in panels then to make sure I ran the thing flat out from sun up to sun down and turned that into an earner.  :0)
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: BruceM on January 01, 2019, 04:48:18 PM
I notice the GTI's are often reported to have a limited service life- especially the newer non-transformer types. 

IceEnergy.com and others with that stored energy A/C approach will be selling a lot of systems.  That will allow you to put your cooling power on PV.  Expensive now but will be less so as volume increases.

I notice that the biggest AZ power co., APS now has a super off peak rate of 3 cents a KWH.
This applies from Nov. to April, 10AM to 3 PM.  This rate is so low that all the higher elevation locations in the state with the need for heating might consider some sort of melted phase change material heat storage system.    This is likely an attempt to increase the winter baseline load for APS's  Palo Verde nuclear plant. 

All this also points out that super insulation is the way to go for the future, as it cuts the heating/cooling need by roughly 75%.

With APS rates varying from 3 cents to 24 cents/kwh already, the market for home battery storage and energy management systems will grow. 





Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: LowGear on January 01, 2019, 08:56:07 PM
My keyboard just ate the best posting I would have ever made.

Happy New Year to you all.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: glort on January 01, 2019, 09:27:48 PM
I notice the GTI's are often reported to have a limited service life- especially the newer non-transformer types. 

That has certainly been my experience. I have collected and blown a heap of the thing no more than 5 years old.
I notice the current generation are gauranteed for 10 years. I think they are going to need a good stock of replacements.  From what I have seen the design is no different and they are all fanless as well now.  Rather than the heat sinks be designed as I have known them with a rated heat dissapation of so many oC/W, the things have 4 Big chuky grooves that look like they could dissapate about 10W an hr and they are working on just a great thermal mass that sinks the heat but would take all night to cool down.  The temps these things run at supports that theroy.

I have put a tube fan on my main inverter with a 40oC thermal switch to turn the thing on. Been running all day every day latley and the heat that comes off the inverter constantly makes me wonder how the things survive 1 day without help. I accidently unplugged the fan the other day and when I went out about midday, I could feel the heat radiating off the thing.  It was so hot I could not keep my hand on it for more than about 10 sec.
Put the fan on and let it run about 15 min and came back to the thing and it was still plenty warm but had clearly shed a good 20C at least.
I have another broken panel I found and got a single car radiator fan so I'll fashion up a bracket/ ducting ( maybe something using a cardboard box) and mount it over the inverter and have the thing run whenever there is sunshine.

In any other application of electronics I have come across in my minimal experience, the goal and priority is to keep the components cool. With inverters, they are basically put in a self powered oven to cook themselves. I don't know how they last at all.

I'll have a look for a more current generation unit with the programmable output function and see how that works and hold my breath.

I do have an old transformer type inverter. They are in big demand by the DIYer electronics crowd here because they can be set up to backfeed for battery charging in off grid situations. Everyone agrees while not quite as efficient as the new type they are simple and robust and when something does go wrong rare as it is, the things are a cinch to diagnose and fix.
Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: BruceM on January 02, 2019, 12:40:07 AM
Not being able to touch it is't bad- your temperature must be just below 160F if you can touch it for 10 seconds.  If you touch it with a wet finger and it sizzles, that's getting hot.

We can imagine how much pressure the designers are to make these things small and cheap. Buyers only look at cost, rated watts capacity and ''efficiency''- as if the latter was somehow important.  Toroidal transformers for 5000w capacity would be quite heavy and large, and not cheap. 

I had a hell of a day.  My new linear pv charge controller has been working flawlessly, but it's a new rework of an old design so I didn't build a backup yet. Today at 11 the sun was out and my battery bank voltage was still 126v so I trudged out with a broom to sweep the snow off the panels.  We got 6-8 inches last night.  When I came back in, battery voltage was now 161!. When I opened the door to the battery bank I could smell fried electronics.  The PV controller was fried- current sense resistors cooked and exploded, oddly, transistors not, stuck ON so full charge current being applied.  I disconnected the large array, and covered part of the small array to get a small rate of charge the battery regulators alone could handle.  Then when getting ready to order parts, I found my computer was out,  which ended up being a cheap POS 12v, 1.5A wall wort (after a fair amount of pulling things apart and trouble shooting).  I had another I could pirate, so got it going, only to find that my custom rear projection focus wasn't working.  That ended up being the tiny gear motor that had failed.  So, after a long day, now I can work on my parts order.

I do have the old PV regulator, which I can modify to be compatible, but I'll have to stick to just my 875 watt array until I can rebuild the new board.  I had spare boards and some parts, but not enough.  An important lesson.

I'll think about adding some max current limiting on the new design.  It seems I've found the worst case-  full sun and fresh snow on upright panels, and 20F temperature, high noon.  The first time for my new additional 1500 watt array in addition too my old 875W.  Too much voltage drop. 
I may have to disconnect one of the panels in the 1500W string for cold weather.

Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: BruceM on January 02, 2019, 01:34:10 PM
I found the problem with my linear PV regulator.  The NPN darlington transistors I originally used had been discontinued so I found a similar part but didn't check the linear safe operating area chart close enough. They just can't take much current at high voltage drop that I'm getting in cold weather (<20F) with a snow sun reflector.

It's alarming that there are almost no large NPN power darlingtons being made any more.  MOSFETs are now being rated for linear operation, and could go into my design, but I liked the robustness of the NPN transitors.  The only application is automotive ignition switching- where that robustness is desired, and they are thus tweaking them for better switching performance and not for linear. 

Title: Re: Before it's all over.....
Post by: BruceM on January 02, 2019, 03:20:41 PM
Yep, after staring at a lot of datasheets, I'm switching to the Fairchild  FDA18N50 500v N-channel Mosfets in linear mode instead of NPN Darlingtons.  They have about 5x the linear current capability. At 100V drop across the transistor they can manage 2 amps until they cook.  My max current (16A) per transistor is only 2.2 amps at 0.55V drop.  They have relatively crappy on resistance (0.25 ohm) but that's fine for this application in linear mode with 7 in parallel.

I used Fairchild mosfets for my inverter project too- they have performance in slow, semi-linear transitions (not fully on or off) and good prices.

Things change pretty fast these days.