Lister Engine Forum
Lister Engines => Lister Based Generators => Topic started by: Listerational on September 11, 2018, 01:10:10 AM
-
Hello Everyone,
Hope you all are well.
I installed a Powerline 10/1 about 6 years ago and I may finally have the opportunity to give it a real test. I could not have gone this far without the help of the nice folks on this forum.
We may be getting hit by a hurricane here in NC and may be without power for several days. I have never run the generator longer than about an hour so I am a little hesitant to run it 24 / 7 especially during the times that I am not there to monitor it. My wife will be there. I have never run more than a couple of baseboard heaters in order to exercise the generator and now I am going to run lights, computers, TV, fans, freezer, refrigerator, etc. I understand about managing load because I install generator transfer kits for a living. I am mostly worried about the generator getting hot, about it suddenly cutting off and damaging electronics, about it catching on fire (it is in my garage).
Should my biggest concern be the generator overheating? I believe that I measured 200+ degrees on the generator once. I have a huge liquid radiator mounted a little higher than the generator however I do not have a circulator.
Should I take steps to protect the electronics in the house? That would mean protecting most everything because about everything has a PC board in it.
I once damaged the board on our gaspack one freezing cold winter when I did not give the gas generator enough time to warm up. Once it warmed up the setting of the throttle was mismatched and the generator cut off. When that happened it damaged the gaspack.
The generator has a 7kw head, is there a way to estimate how many gallons of fuel it will consume? This way I can refill the tank before it runs out.
Thanks for letting me put my thoughts on paper. If you would not mind making a recommendation or two I would appreciate it.
Best regards,
Jim
-
For my battery recharging with 6/1, I have a runtime of 60-90 minutes, 2x a day. That gets a 30 gal thermosiphon tank up to about 170F, at about a 2500w load on the alternator.
I do not let the listeroid engine run un-attended for more than a couple minutes.
For longterm house power, I run a eu2000 with an extended run tank.
Do you have power monitoring gear, to see what your load is ? What size is your alternator 5kw ? 7kw?
-
My Listeroid 6/1 is very remote so I added a custom monitoring and shut down system. That said, the only time it's done an emergency shutdown in the last 3000 hrs is for low oil... I forget to check it and I have the low sensor set pretty high.
Assuming you did a decent job of setting it up I think you should give her a workout; you may even get it broken in properly. A plugged in power monitor with frequency should be sufficient to keep from overload- just see what the frequency drop is for the most load she handles easily with clean exhaust, and note the approximate watts. Making a list of approximate watts for various loads for her would also be helpful for manual power management. With that and the frequency readout, she'll learn fast.
-
Hard for me to make reverent comment about the installation when I have not seen it. Some are nicely done and some are a wreck waiting to happen.
Planning hind sight being 20/20 we will leave that alone but I would worry about an untested set running 24/7 also. The generator suddenly cutting off should not be your worry however slowing down for whatever reason and thus losing voltage and hrz should be. What Bruce said about the wife X2. Buy a Kill o Watt meter at Home Depot and plug it in where she will walk by it often. Teach her what the acceptable ranges are and write them on a piece of paper and tape it to the wall beside the meter. Teach her to listen to the engine. My wife is about as mechanically inclined as nothing but because she likes to have power so she very quickly learned to listen to the exhaust note of the 1115 China diesel 15KW set and watch the kilowatt meter. I also told her to go out and take a look and call me if ANYTHING looked or sounded out of place. If your wife isn't going to get all of that then personally I would shut it off when not around, her inconvenience during the times you are not there will be greatly magnified by no power whatsoever or burned up electronics.
It has been 4 years since we had an outage long enough to use our set but I exercise it monthly. I usually let it run at part throttle for a bit to warm up then throttle it up to speed. One time I got busy after I started it so I didnt bring the RPMs up. The wife came out of the house and said, You better check that generator,it doesn't sound right!
I was pretty proud of her for that ;D
Fuel usage varies with demand placed on the engine. Our 1115 set doesn't work very hard with us living pretty much normally and runs almost everything in the house with very little usage management while burning about a quart per hour. Your 10/1 should be in that same range with a stiff loading. Take that loading down to 2-3KW and usage should be about a little over a pint per hour.
-
Thanks,
These are all awesome suggestions. I will definitely blow a fan on the radiator, good idea. I will plug in my kilowatt / frequency meter and have her watch it.
I appreciate the help. I will sleep good tonight.
Best,
Jim
PS. The head is a 7kw.
-
You know, I normally switch off when Glort starts ranting, but I must be honest, his is the best advice so far. Stop worrying, these things are designed to run for extended periods. What I would do is not wait for the hurricane, but load the thing as much as possible now and run for at least 12hrs while you're there. If nothing goes wrong - test passsed. Now you will know how much oil and fuel it uses and will be prepared and confident when the hurricane does hit
-
Good idea. Thanks for the tip.....
-
In fairness to Glort he's no Penelope Pitstop, no help I've just broken a nail! He's old school seems to just try it if it works great learn from it same as if it doesn't work. There's usually a little nugget of wisdom
-
hey, no offence meant towards Glort. I've learnt a hell of a lot from his posts
-
hey, no offence meant towards Glort. I've learnt a hell of a lot from his posts
Watch some of his youtube videos and you'll learn what NOT to do as well!
-
Yes, I was just watching him pointlessly disagreeing with each aspect of one of my recent posts (a very non-controversial one about a CS on our TradeMe online sales forum down here at the Bottom of the World)
I guess in the past I may have been upset, but, realising the poor chap both mental health issues, poor self-restraint skills, a personality disorder and is chronically unable to watch anyone buy anything without exclaiming "You're a moron for paying that much!" - all I can do is laugh
Keep the videos coming. When my grandchildren need to be taught about the perils of playing with fire, they are excellent
-
I've watched quite a few and enjoyed them. Glort, in all seriousness, keep the posts coming, it was just my cheeky South African humour taking dig at you. I still have a lot to learn and don't want to piss too many people off.
-
Good day Listerational, while my forum friends have played games with each other and offered you some good advice I`m more interested in how you are. Did you get hit by the storm, did you and your wife go OK is there anything that the forum members can do to help?
Bob
-
Also been waiting for some news. Hope all is well.
-
Yes, I was just watching him pointlessly disagreeing with each aspect of one of my recent posts (a very non-controversial one about a CS on our TradeMe online sales forum down here at the Bottom of the World)
I guess in the past I may have been upset, but, realising the poor chap both mental health issues, poor self-restraint skills, a personality disorder and is chronically unable to watch anyone buy anything without exclaiming "You're a moron for paying that much!" - all I can do is laugh
Keep the videos coming. When my grandchildren need to be taught about the perils of playing with fire, they are excellent
Well some of Glort's attributes may come in handy as he tries to save the micro cogeneration site? Sadly mostly by his lonesome at this point and time BUT I am thinking if they can just get one other guy with as much to say as he does that the site will be saved just on the traffic created by those two people ;D ;D ;D Plus it would give him a place to write novels other than here ;D ;D Seriously there is a lot of good information over there about to be lost I kinda hope that site stays up as I use it for reference now and then and combining it with this one doesn't seem to be an option.
-
Hi 38ac, thanks for putting out the word about the micro cogeneration site. I am not a member but have used it as a useful resource in the past. Good on Glort for trying to keep it going by becoming a major contributor. I just might have to become a member and disagree with everything he posts just to help get the ball rolling! :laugh:
Very sorry to hear that our forum can`t absorb some of the knowledge they have there. Our administrator/moderator is a regular contributor on that site, can he not do something?
I guess there isn`t the appetite for the knowledge and experience people like you have, the youth of today will not appreciate what they are losing until it`s gone and once it`s gone it`s gone forever. :(
Anything I can do to help, please let me know.
Bob
-
+1
As there's only a limited number of old farts left and this forum seems to have more than it's fair share it might not be a bad place for a repository.
My computer skills are about the same as my electronic ones, but I'm happy to help too......
Cheers
Stef
-
Thanks for the support Stef, less of the old fart stuff and more of the suppository or was that repository, eyes aren`t what they were.
Bob
-
Very sorry to hear that our forum can`t absorb some of the knowledge they have there. Our administrator/moderator is a regular contributor on that site, can he not do something?
Bob
There are ownership connections with the two forums that I dont fully understand and frankly I spent no time worrying myself about that part of it. The history goes kinda like this, This forum was to be shut down several years ago after a bunch of turmoil and the fellow that owns the other site purchased this one, or the rights to it? or whatever. As I said I dont know how it all works. This was all going on as I was coming unto the scene, all I know is this place wasn't functional at one point.
A lot of parallel information on the sites, this one is holding its own, that one died. Were it me I would combine them but that doesn't seem possible.
To tell you the truth I worry about this site more than that one, I dont see the other one as savable at this point. With no offense implied or intended to those involved if a person takes away the top 2-3 posters here and all the (place your own term here) they post on here the traffic on this site gets pretty light too. I make no claims to having answers to any of this but I have watched enough web forums die to have an understanding of when it is beginning and the warning signs are here also, sad to say
-
Thanks 38ac for the heads up. I guess old engines aren`t that interesting to young fellas. Doesn`t mean we can`t talk about them. Myself and Stef have put the challenge out to Glort to put up or shut up about WVO. I `m hoping and expecting that he comes up with the definitive instruction manual on how to clean, dry and inject WVO. I have offered my nearly complete CS as a test bed and am happy to follow his instructions and publish the results, I`m also happy to suffer the consequences if it goes wrong.
We need to find some way to preserve this knowledge, it took nearly a century to accumulate and could be lost overnight. God help future generations if this information is lost.
Bob
-
That's good Bob ;D, glad to hear it and hope he takes you up as that type of posting is valuable to the site in the long term. The other OT booklets just keep a couple day to day guys interested in logging on, sorta like the back table at the coffee shop where 2 or 3 guys gather every morning to fix all the world's problems because they have nothing better to do. Once more no offense intended or implied with that remark but one of the warning signs I spoke of is when that become the main traffic of the site.
All that being said there is nothing at all that we can do about lack of interest in general, except maybe to hope for a grid melt down and a 3 month power outage.,, come to think of it a firearm would be a whole lot more valued than a WMO converted generator I am afraid ;)
-
Be careful what you wish for, we had a power outage all day yesterday. The ST2 came to the rescue and ran faultlessly for 12 hours. Wish I had it set up to run WVO rather than diesel.
Bob
-
Thanks 38ac for the heads up. I guess old engines aren`t that interesting to young fellas. Doesn`t mean we can`t talk about them. Myself and Stef have put the challenge out to Glort to put up or shut up about WVO. I `m hoping and expecting that he comes up with the definitive instruction manual on how to clean, dry and inject WVO. I have offered my nearly complete CS as a test bed and am happy to follow his instructions and publish the results, I`m also happy to suffer the consequences if it goes wrong.
We need to find some way to preserve this knowledge, it took nearly a century to accumulate and could be lost overnight. God help future generations if this information is lost.
Bob
I think there may be limited interest from future generations? Over and again i see the treasure of the past ("selling these vintage engines which were my late father's treasures . . . ) passed in without a bid. In many cases they are items which would have attracted fierce bidding twenty years ago such as antique tractors.
New Zealand was the last country in the globe to have the dubious privilege of being colonised by the British; so our population was sparse and largely agrarian well into the 1950s. Consequently our hedgerows are littered with Listers and the (NZ-built) Anderson equivalents. You literally cannot give away an Anderson or a Lister petrol engine. I have refused offers of many such from folks who just wanted the heavy things gone
Although the information on here has been invaluable to me in playing with my CSs, it is the interaction with interesting folks with a range of fascinating skills, experiences, and different outlooks which is equally valuable
In another generation or two the CSs will be museum pieces but we shall be all far too dead to care
But as long as there is someone playing with them, and as long as the Indians continue to make parts and clones - then this information will be valued
I, for example, copy/paste/edited the 38AC valve-events thread in its entirety (cutting out the repetitive comments & tidying it up) then just printed it off so I can never lose it . . .
I'm sure those who value this stuff will continue to contribute to keeping it alive . . . it's just that I imagine there will be less of us as thee years go by
-
That's 'cos you're old skool, Mike........
I did the same, printed the lot and set off to the shed for a whole day's entertainment!
Cheers
Stef
-
Wow, I have also printed off a copy! Don`t tell 38ac or he`ll be suing us all for breach of copyright. Sadly my CS rebuild isn`t quite advanced enough to use the knowledge yet.
I believe that Glort has started writing his novel about how to collect, treat and use WVO, should make great reading.
Bob
-
FWIW I went to Utterpower a while ago and copy/pasted a lot of George's stuff
Quite a bit if it is just incorrect, but that's just a function of learning-by-doing. But it seemed to me some of the stuff on ST heads an related topics has merit
I have also stolen things like the Lister Dating page at OldEngine
I don't think this is abuse if I'm not circulating or selling or even sharing - I just like to have the information myself
-
Hi Mike, I`m sure people who post information (right or wrong) on forums and web sites do it to be helpful or possibly deliberately misleading. Downloading it can`t possibly be any sort of a crime. Redistributing it may be. Keeping a paper or digital copy of something you found on the internet is often a good idea as a lot of sites don`t stay up for long. Just be careful, you can be sure that someone, somewhere is watching everything you do online. This may be benign curiosity or data harvesting so that political groups or advertisers can turn you into an asset. A lot of countries have recently introduced new legislation, forcing the internet service providers to store your metadata, so that it can be made available to law enforcement agencies on demand.
How do I know this? Many years ago I worked in IT and at the time GCHQ (British spying center) had 8000 employees and 64000 phone lines. I wonder what they were doing with all that bandwidth, I doubt they were watching re runs of their favorite TV shows. I also wonder how much bandwidth they now have access to and how many back doors into server systems worldwide. That`s just the UK, add the USA, China, Russia the Koreans N&S and you start to get a picture of what is really going on.
We have nothing to hide and so probably nothing to fear but if there is anything you want to keep to yourself don`t put it online, send a letter. It is still against the law, in most countries, to intercept or open someones mail without a court order.
Bob
-
Way to go Glort, you must have very tired fingers and soar eyes by now. Can`t wait for the big post, will let you know what I think of it and if there is anything you missed or needs clarifying.
I wonder if there is some way to keep the politicians and big end of town from trying to monetize your knowledge and experience. It would be a real downer if they changed the laws and etc just to fill their own greedy pockets.
Bob
-
I have tried to avoid waffling on but I feel some things need an explanation as there is so much that is contradictory to the repeated norms and If I just say, Do or don't do this without explanation as to why, it will make no sense and be dismissed. I have seen myself how it's possible to read something so many times and then even when you prove it's not right, for the misinformation to still be in your head and make you think something is wrong when you are doing it right.
there was so much I found to be just plain wrong with the parroted mantras in the veg game,,,,
Glort
This is EXACTLY the same dilemma I faced with the mechanical side of things. May I compliment you for stating in a much better manner than I could have. I defend the pioneers who were trying to figure it out. I have the deepest respect for people like George Breckenridge, Joel Koch, Mike Montieth and Gary Jones. That I have 20/20 hindsight ( or close to it) does NOT make me better or smarter than these men and others who were forging the path that we are all walking on today. However I hold those those who simply repeated the early findings as Gospel with no other knowledge than a few operating hours as a different group. My name for them is "google smart" ;)
May I encourage you to be forthright in debunking what experience has taught you to be wrong.
As for my contributions here there is nothing to copyright. What I have presented is nothing more than the same wisdom that 1000s of other motor men would contribute would they happen to get involved with these engines. Expert I am not, I just apply what I have learned in close to 50 years with my fingers inside of engines. You may notice that I stay clear of all electrical discussions and most of the alternative fuel threads? I dont want my total ignorance of such to become common knowledge 8) 8)
-
Hi Mike, I`m sure people who post information (right or wrong) on forums and web sites do it to be helpful or possibly deliberately misleading. Downloading it can`t possibly be any sort of a crime. Redistributing it may be. Keeping a paper or digital copy of something you found on the internet is often a good idea as a lot of sites don`t stay up for long. Just be careful, you can be sure that someone, somewhere is watching everything you do online. This may be benign curiosity or data harvesting so that political groups or advertisers can turn you into an asset. A lot of countries have recently introduced new legislation, forcing the internet service providers to store your metadata, so that it can be made available to law enforcement agencies on demand.
How do I know this? Many years ago I worked in IT and at the time GCHQ (British spying center) had 8000 employees and 64000 phone lines. I wonder what they were doing with all that bandwidth, I doubt they were watching re runs of their favorite TV shows. I also wonder how much bandwidth they now have access to and how many back doors into server systems worldwide. That`s just the UK, add the USA, China, Russia the Koreans N&S and you start to get a picture of what is really going on.
We have nothing to hide and so probably nothing to fear but if there is anything you want to keep to yourself don`t put it online, send a letter. It is still against the law, in most countries, to intercept or open someones mail without a court order.
Bob
+1 on that. I'm often dismayed by the stuff that my children and grandchildren's generations will casually and trustingly put on line.
"Mother, should I trust the government . . . ?"
-
Im looking forward to this missive Glort even though I will never be able to use the knowledge in Ireland. If you make fuel for any road going vehicle you must pay excise duty to the wastrels in Dublin. Even more irritating its almost impossible to get insurance on a car over 15 years old. You can join a vintage club if your car is over 30 years old and you can get insurance IF you have a car under 15 years old thats insured taxed tested etc and your annual mileage in the vintage/classic is limited to 3000 km. Of course the older cars would be much easier to get to run on alternative fuels bur really whats the point living here. Grrr
-
Wish I hadn`t left my old short wheel based Mitubishi Pajero in the UK when I came to Australia. It was the most wonderfully over engineered tool I have ever owned. It would go anywhere, tow anything and I`m sure it would run on WVO a dream.
Bob
-
Hey Glort, no pressure and I`m sure we won`t be disappointed. The worst that can happen is that it will restart the conversation.
Bob