Lister Engine Forum
Lister Engines => Listeroid Engines => Topic started by: viking427 on April 06, 2018, 07:28:41 PM
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Hey guys, haven't kept score of the India listeroid market in the past few years and I didnt see it mentioned in the brand roundup - anyone know what mfr or export agent currently has the largest displacement single with its rated hp less than 1000rpm ? Not interested in oilfield engines :) just wondering who's got the largest displacement. Last I heard it was 28/1 or 30/1.
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Depends on what you call a Listeroid?
There are 139x160 (or near) engines that are called anything from 14 to 18HP . From 700 to 1000 RPM. These share few parts with the standard stroke engines so it's a stretch to call them Listeroids in my book but that's me. The crankcase is a bit larger, block is a bit taller , most are D.I. etc etc. Gary at Diesel Electric brought a few in and might still have some, if not I have one in stock that can be bought. Years ago quite a few were sold by the Metro guy , Sam? and rated at 16 HP.
Then you have the 155x178(or near) engines that share nothing with a CS or Listeroid other than they have one cylinder and two flywheels. These are rated 18 tp 20 HP usually and around 700 RPM. There is at least one of those in this country that carries a Lovson nameplate. Topland in India advertises them but have been hard to deal with, bad communicators.. If you Inquire over there I am certain that any of the erectors or exporters would be glad to quote, personally I would not trust most of them out of my reach. Lovson is a good outfit and Joanna is great.
There is no standard for rating those engines and no standard of morality either. If you want to call one of them 55HP at 400 RPM just ask the importer for that and that is what will be stamped on the plate.
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Thanks 38c.
I did find reference in the archives (12 years ago), to Lovson export's "Super Single". I think this is the whale I was remembering seeing mentioned.
SCL-16; 16hp / 1cyl @ 670rpm 155mm bore X 204mm stroke"SUPER" SINGLE CYLINDER $1,025.00
SCL-20; 20hp / 1cyl @ 750rpm 155mm bore X 204mm stroke"SUPER " SINGLE CYLINDER $1,140.00
SCL-22; 22hp / 1cyl @ 800rpm 155mm bore X 204mm stroke "SUPER " SINGLE CYLINDER $1,160.00
235 c.i.d. (3.85L), 6 1/8" bore, 8" stroke, 300lb. flywheels (x2), one cylinder. I don't see it referenced on Lovson's site anymore, Looks like their top dog is now just the "SLC-12 SUMO"; 1.7liter, 12hp @ 1krpm, 127mm x 139.7mm. I suspect they would/could still deliver the SLC super single upon request.
I also see Topland still offers the "18ADI2" 3.35L 20hp/1cyl, 155mm x 177.8mm, as their heavyweight single.
I'm guessing the Rajkot mfrs aren't selling too many of these bigger units over there, since the India exporters are still overwhelmingly advertising the 8/10/12-1 clones as their lead product.
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We have a good clone single that is rated 18hp at 750 rpm and those will be real numbers. Others call the same thing 20hp. Perhaps bump the rpms just a little and they could be accurate.
dieselgman
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There used to be a guy on here with what I believe was a 20 HP single, if memory serves me. I think his handle was Dirtbikepilot or something like that.
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We have a good clone single that is rated 18hp at 750 rpm and those will be real numbers. Others call the same thing 20hp. Perhaps bump the rpms just a little and they could be accurate.
dieselgman
Do you have a website showing those engines?
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No non-conforming engine advertising is allowed per EPA regulation. The penalty on their books is the same as actually selling a non-conforming engine. SO, you have to be discreet. Several of our 18/1 parts kit projects are reported here on this forum though.
dieselgman
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Lots of goofy rules at every regulatory agency; most are crafted by and for the largest "regulated" companies- often to keep out upstart competition. An example of foolish rules: emissions for vehicles are based on exhaust gas analysis- not on total emissions per mile.
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Don't even get me started... the best of intentions in a powerful bureaucracy like that can quickly turn into everyone's nightmare. This madness had a large impact on Lister-Petter Americas and their eventual demise. Same for many other sensible enterprises. Crazy times!
dieselgman
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Thanks 38c.
I did find reference in the archives (12 years ago), to Lovson export's "Super Single". I think this is the whale I was remembering seeing mentioned.
SCL-16; 16hp / 1cyl @ 670rpm 155mm bore X 204mm stroke"SUPER" SINGLE CYLINDER $1,025.00
SCL-20; 20hp / 1cyl @ 750rpm 155mm bore X 204mm stroke"SUPER " SINGLE CYLINDER $1,140.00
SCL-22; 22hp / 1cyl @ 800rpm 155mm bore X 204mm stroke "SUPER " SINGLE CYLINDER $1,160.00
235 c.i.d. (3.85L), 6 1/8" bore, 8" stroke, 300lb. flywheels (x2), one cylinder. I don't see it referenced on Lovson's site anymore, Looks like their top dog is now just the "SLC-12 SUMO"; 1.7liter, 12hp @ 1krpm, 127mm x 139.7mm. I suspect they would/could still deliver the SLC super single upon request.
I also see Topland still offers the "18ADI2" 3.35L 20hp/1cyl, 155mm x 177.8mm, as their heavyweight single.
I'm guessing the Rajkot mfrs aren't selling too many of these bigger units over there, since the India exporters are still overwhelmingly advertising the 8/10/12-1 clones as their lead product.
Maybe a coincidence but the John Deere Two Cylinder Diesel tractors Models 80,820,840 and 840 also used the 6-1/8" by 8" stroke dimensions .
They are rated at 75HP at 1250rpm. That would be 18HP or so at 650rpm per cylinder . .
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Well mine a16/1 is supposed to be 16 hp at 1000 rpms but I run it at 640 rpm so I’m not sure of the hp I can tell you it runs a 10 k gen head all day at full load with no issues
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He said it runs a 10 k head, all day, not that he's pulling 10 k out of the head.............
Cheers
Stef
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Isn't diesel about 1.5-1.75 HP per KW? Sounds feasible to me. May be into overload territory but may be doable.
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It's sort of a 'frame of reference' thing.
My CS is 'pulling a full load' when it's knocking out around 3 kw, the alternator is rated at 8, a bit like Uncle Elon and his Tesla data............
Cheers Stef
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The rule of thumb that I use is .75 kW (theoretical) per horsepower, but this is just good for doing general on-paper calcs. The reality will be determined by additional factors such as the mechanical losses in the drive system - bearings and belts.
dieselgman
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It is best for the novice to forget theoretical and go with 50% or 2 engine HP per KW. NO legit manufacturer or assembler would use the same rating for stand by and prime power. Neither will they list peek and continuous ratings as the same. There is a heck of a lot more to it than saying this engine is prim and proper for this alternator. I always suggest alternator overkill when somebody is setting up a system. it costs little up front and very little operationally. Reason being an attentive operator can tell when he has overloaded things by listening to his prime mover.
Back to the guy with the 16/2 pulling 10KW. yes, entirely possible. I have often talked about rack limiters and why Lister used them and the lack thereof on the Indian engines. There is not a doubt in my mind that a standard bore and stroke CS type India engine will pull more than the original rated horsepower, 6HP at 650 RPM and 8HP at 800. At 6HP a CS doesn't smoke black, not even close to it due to the rack limiter. All India engines can be operated at what the original designers called "over fuel" for starting purposes. How much extra HP does this produce? I cant say in terms measured on a dyno. However I have had both original CS 6/1 and India 6/1 clones belted up to the same loads and the India engine definitely has a HP advantage. His 16/2 could very well be producing 18HP or more and darn well able to pull 10K
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Indian stated HP Limits vs Actual....
One thing occurred to me is that the key stress components on the Indian engines may be a limiting factor.
They seem to have soft crankshafts. I wonder if the con rods and wrist pins are of true Lister quality and strength?
Perhaps the max HP rating of Indian machines is more related to metallurgy? Even if they are not bowing black smoke, they may still be close to disintegration :o
LOL
Just a thought.
Veggie
PS: Don't forget to factor in altitude. I live at 3300 ft elevation and engines must be de-rated by 10% here.
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Good point, Veggie. I'm at 5600ft elevation and 25% derating is needed here. Automatic chokes on small engines don't work well here, either.
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If you extrapolate via displacement . A naturally aspirated diesel makes 1/4HP per cubic inch at 1800rpm.