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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ajaffa1 on March 06, 2018, 11:05:39 AM

Title: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 06, 2018, 11:05:39 AM
At first I thought this was funny, then I realised that as a tax payer in NSW the joke is on me https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/nsw-government-ordered-trains-worth-202120497.html
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on March 06, 2018, 12:31:43 PM

Why am i not surprised???
Probably too much attention paid to phone charging ports than for someone to take the time to look at the size of the things.

Every ( infrequent) time I go on the eastern suburbs railway that took over 100 years to finish that goes from the City to Bondi, I shit myself. The carriages already run so close to the walls in that long tunnel, its terrifying.

I'm no engineer but most of the tunnels in the city network are 100+ years old. They are brick lined. I can't even begin to imagine the cost of widening them  even 200MM. Most of them have pipes either on the surface or under the face and who knows what else they used to stabilise and support them.

The safety standard thing seems to be the new solution to every inconvenient problem.
Too much radiation from Fukishima in fish, just re do the standard so once what was unthinkable is fine. Too much fecal matter in imported vegetables,  just change or eliminate the standard. Anything gets too bad, don't test for it at all and then you can say you never found anything wrong... hard to find something you were paying no attention to!
Trains don't have enough clearance, just reduce the required margin so they " Shouldn't touch" when they pass. God help the day they go a bit quicker than usual or are more loaded and sway a bit further when they meet at the apex of a bend.

It's just incredible that all the time saftey regulations are being made tighter and tighter and we are being made into a nanny state more and more every day EXCEPT when it comes to the Gubberment  having to spend money and then it's OK to relax standards that were thought to be needed before safety was ever invented as a word let alone a preoccupation.

Lets see the Pollies start riding round in cheap arse Korean cars that don't meet Oz safety standards and see how that goes down. Don't matter if they crumple like a used franger if you hit a pigeon on the road, they are cheap right?

There was a very infamous train disaster here about 40 years ago called the Granville train disaster. I think the final death toll was about 84. My uncle nearly made it 85 but thankfully pulled through and only died  in his sleep 2 years back. Was in hospital for months though.
That was caused by the train going wide on a turn and clipping the bridge support brining it down on top of the following carriages.

Get ready for Granville II, the sequel, coming to a Sydney station near you. maybe ALL the sydney stations!.
They mention tunnels but what about the platforms? Some of the trains don't clear them by 20 Cm.  As a lot of stations taper down at the ends, I can see a train catching one and rolling into the station on it's side like a  stunt at half time at the demolition derby.
At least the people can charge their phones while they wait for the rescuers to get the bodies off them and cut them free.  ::)

Wonder what that will cost the tax payers when there is a class action for wrongful death when it is clearly and without doubt shown they knew the things were too wide before they were even built.

Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 06, 2018, 09:11:39 PM
Sounds like a communist plot to me.

Vladimir: Comrade Bruce I want you to go and buy trains that won`t work, here`s 3 billion quid.
                                                                 
                                                           A week later

Vladimir: Comrade Bruce how did you get on?
Bruce: Very well comrade Vladimir, I bought trains that are too wide for the tunnels.
Vladimir: Good work Bruce, how much did it cost?
Bruce: Sadly they would only take 2.5 billion so I sent the balance to North Korea.
Vladimir: Well done, I`ll contact our man in parliament house and get it all approved. I want you to get on the phone and see if you can get the manufacturer to change the gauge of the wheels, that way they will have to replace all the track as well as the tunnels and platforms.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: BruceM on March 06, 2018, 10:59:50 PM
Alas, the problem isn't unique just to government-  large corporations have the same problems.  Basically any large group of humans results in the same thing.  The eventual death of Motorola came as no surprise to me after working for them for a few years and attending their global marketing conference for upper managers...amazing things are done to improve appearances on the next quarterly report...despite the eventual consequences. Ditto for utterly incompetent management at a big military contractor...an entire huge facility built, staffed and closed (leased) in 7 years...I'd guess hundreds of millions lost but can't even think in numbers that big.

The problem we face is that we must continue to have humans "in charge", and most have already risen to their level of incompetency.  Ignorance and greed are the traits you can really count on, anything else is a fluke.

 
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: EdDee on March 07, 2018, 07:41:50 AM
The law of business.... Promote staff to their 1st level of incompetency.....
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on March 07, 2018, 07:43:13 AM

The problem we face is that we must continue to have humans "in charge", and most have already risen to their level of incompetency.  Ignorance and greed are the traits you can really count on, anything else is a fluke.

This is the exact reason I am dead against nuclear reactors.
It's not the technology that is at fault, it's the humans that run the things.
Rhere is ALWAYS going to be some shortcutting of the infallible procedures, some person that wants to make  things look better to the bosses/ shareholders than they really are, someone wants to svae money on doing wok that needs to be done or someone that's too lazy to do the job right  and creates a disaster.

They can go on all they like about the design and procedures but what they can't guarantee is the Human will always to what they should and that it the very weak and dangerous point.

Your experience Bruce was like mine with Kodak. 
They were barely hanging on with their incompetence and stupid  policys and practices before they shot themselves in the foot with Digital creating the very thing that put them out of business.  I went to a managers meetings several times and they asked how they could improve profits. I said loose half your customers because they are costing us money not making it.  They said their own figures agreed but they didn't want to loose market share. I said why not? Let the other guys deal with them and weaken their position and then when they go down we will get them back on OUR profitable terms.
Nup.  Want market share.

 That wasn't ultimately their undoing but it sure hurt them before they properly tied their own noose.
Customers knew, want to get anything out of Kodak and for free, just mention the F word.
Fuji.

Well now they have ZERO market and the other guys are still going well in different markets but still there unlike Kodak which is a trademark and technology licensing little 2 bit company a fraction of it's former glory and prestige.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: BruceM on March 07, 2018, 05:44:04 PM
Total absence of rational decision making when staring at clear, unequivocal evidence of very serious problems is an all to common theme for humans.   

It's distressing for those who care about the future collective state of humans.  It's hard to see a way through.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on March 07, 2018, 08:38:40 PM
Total absence of rational decision making when staring at clear, unequivocal evidence of very serious problems is an all to common theme for humans. 

So is arse covering and denial despite potential or definite life changing situations and problems.
 Profit rules over all else and there is nothing that won't be done to protect or benefit that.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: BruceM on March 07, 2018, 10:12:25 PM
I'm in complete agreement on nuclear power and the human issue with building and operating, though the waste disposal problem is also very real and much hairier than presented to us as young engineers.  Every single one of the methods proposed at that time (1975) has since failed profoundly, such as dilution an mixing with cement or creating a ceramic composite- anything to stabilize the crap so it can be stored in a hole somewhere safely.  They all failed as the radioactive bombardment destroys the structure of anything tried so far. Other ideas were tested and also failed miserably.

There still is no good plan, and the current farce is that barrels of liquid waste will be replaced with new barrels (aka the shell game) before they leak for 10,000+ years, as if stability of government for that duration has ever happened.  At Yucca mtn. in the US, where our depository is supposed to be, specially tagged water was released, and found to show up in area aquifers in only a few years.  They also found it to be on a previously unnoticed fault line.  No worries, we'll just keep stockpiling at the points of use! 

I think a good measure of the rationality of nuclear power as built and operated  are the insurance costs; for nuclear power plants, NO insurance company in the world will insure them.



Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on March 07, 2018, 11:46:57 PM

I'm with you on that too Bruce.
It makes no sense to me to produce the worlds most deadly poison for which there can be no neutralisation, disposal or anything other than just adding to an unsolvable future nightmare.

I completely get the shits with these soin doctors and plain ignorant morons who always come out with some crap about " new" or next generation reactors. won't produce this waste or whatever. Heard it the other week again. Pointed out that this " New" and wonderful soloution has been known about 20 years but not one of these reactors exists because they are too damn expensive to build.

The idiots also talk about new and old reactors and say stupid things like " It can't happen with the new reactors" But fail to acknowledge the old ones with their known and clearly demonstrated faults are not only still in operation, their design life is being extended and even doubled!
Greed, deception and human behaviour at it's typical corporate level.

As a kid I used to see all these protest and think whay a bunch of trouble makers.  As I got older I realised how filthy and corrupt the world and the powers that run it are and more than understand what I thought was a bunch of fanatics are the people that really understood.

I followed that Fukishima disaster and the amount of cover up in that is beyond criminal. It's orse now than ever but instead of making headlines and getting world attention, it's buried and we are distracted from real issues with all sorts of other manufactured crap to divert our attention from the fact we are being slaughtered for profit by big biz and gubbermints.

I think the reality is it is such a disaster and so beyond control, may as well cover it up and let people go about what ever lives they have because we are all probably going to suffer from it and be fked one way or the other.

This is a reason why I think the whole Green/ save the planet environment thing is a complete and utter farce and nothing more than a money spinner.
Forget about C02 and Globull warming, the nuke industry along with many others are killing us and jack ship is being done about it because that would COST big biz and gubbermints, not MAKE them money. When that happens, no one wants to know.

Look at any green/ environmental initiative and you'll find someone profiting big time from it.

There was a story here last week about an airforce base up the coast where all sorts of contaminants have been found around the area and residents around it have been dropping from cancer at about 20X the average rate.  They have found the cause, linked it directly to solvents used with the aircraft and there is no question where it came from.  Gubbermint has just stalled and red taped all class actions and everything else and done nothing to rectify it except not using the product which is no longer made anyway.

Houses around there are available for literally $1000 because no one wants to be there and they certainly can't be sold for any real money.

Kinda makes a defence force a moot point when it's going to kill it's own citizens through it's very existence and operation in the first place.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: BruceM on March 08, 2018, 12:59:08 AM
It's really sad that government acts like a big corporation in dealing with it's own citizens and screws them when there is a toxic injury.  You'd think such deep pockets would allow a bit of compassion but it's no different.


Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: BruceM on March 08, 2018, 05:23:15 AM
The US media has been very quiet about Fukishima. Last I read it was still pouring radiation directly into the ocean, and there was no way to deal with much of the source radiation as robot electronics were destroyed in short order by the intense radiation.
From the start there was an appeal by nuclear scientists about the seriousness of the situation that recommended a huge multinational effort to deal with Fukishima and it was ignored.  Humans prefer denial when faced with complexity or difficulty.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on March 08, 2018, 09:05:15 AM

I just had a bit of a look on the web about the latest on the situation.
I scared myself. Seriously.

Where there was once a load of denial and downplaying by vested interests, I couldn't even find that now. So apparent it's a disaster 1000 times what the world has ever seen before or has a hope in hell of dealing with, they aren't even trying to gloss it over any more.

To think of it as a local problem is ludicrous.  It's a world wide one beyond doubt and one of the most affected nations apart from Japan is the US.
The world gets bombarded with Bullshit every single day about globull warming and Co2 while the planet and everything on it really is dying at a rate that makes the  Global warming predictions look like slow motion.

The real scary part is this has been going on for 7 years now and it's not only getting measurably worse but statistically more dangerous.  The next earthquake and Tsunami is getting closer every day and when that happens, It literally could be good night for a big chunk of the world and millions of people for decades to come.  the contamination does not go away, it does not get weaker, it can not be removed. It's with us for all intents and purposes, eternity. How in hell we can still be letting these things function is beyond belief.

Sound's dramatic and over the top but the one thing about this you come to realise the more you learn, is that there is nothing that can be said that is over the top about this.  No matter how sensationalist things may sound, the reality is it's probably no where near the horror of what the situation really is.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: buickanddeere on March 08, 2018, 03:14:25 PM
The US media has been very quiet about Fukishima. Last I read it was still pouring radiation directly into the ocean, and there was no way to deal with much of the source radiation as robot electronics were destroyed in short order by the intense radiation.
From the start there was an appeal by nuclear scientists about the seriousness of the situation that recommended a huge multinational effort to deal with Fukishima and it was ignored.  Humans prefer denial when faced with complexity or difficulty.

Everything is radioactive . It is just how much . Ever look at the cancer rates of a couple of  particular Japanese cities ? The amount of radiation from Fukushima leaking into the ocean is how much compared to natural occurring potassium 40 ?
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: LowGear on March 08, 2018, 05:26:33 PM
You've got to look out for those cruise missiles armed with natural occurring potassium 40.

Once you start to understand how many people suffer and die because of tobacco, alcohol and sugar every year all over the world you start to understand how innocent war is.

Sleep tight.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: BruceM on March 08, 2018, 06:43:15 PM
I found this interesting.
http://ourradioactiveocean.org/results.html 



Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on March 08, 2018, 09:36:12 PM
The amount of radiation from Fukushima leaking into the ocean is how much compared to natural occurring potassium 40 ?

So You are happy to go to the disaster site and work on the clean-up then?   ::)

Clearly, You do not understand the real problem and what is the dangerous part of the situation. Here's a heads up, it's not the radiation per se but the particles which are in the micron size and hundreds of tons of material that has been turned to dust and dispersed around the world.

You should read up on the subject some more so as to not make flawed statements and show ignorance of the disaster it is.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: buickanddeere on March 10, 2018, 12:09:25 AM
You've got to look out for those cruise missiles armed with natural occurring potassium 40.

Once you start to understand how many people suffer and die because of tobacco, alcohol and sugar every year all over the world you start to understand how innocent war is.

Sleep tight.

 Tell us how much time that you have spent inside containment at a nuclear power plant.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 10, 2018, 12:51:21 AM
The real problem with safety of these plants has and always will be human error. Engineers assured the public, when these things were built, that the chance of a major incident was less than a million to one. so Fukashima, Chernoble and Three Mile Island  makes three that I know of. Thus it stands to reason that there must be at least three million of these plants operating.

A second problem is disposal of radioactive waste. This material will remain hazardous for tens of thousands of years. Can any one think of a way of marking a burial site so that humans thousands of years in the future will know not to dig it up?

The third major issue is that the engineers designing and building this sh1t had no idea of how to decommission them at the end of their life. They went ahead and built them hoping that improvements in technology would provide a solution. It hasn`t, the consequence of this is that we have now have dozens of plants that have or are reaching the end of their useful lives. The structures are made of concrete and steel and will probably decay away in a thousand years or so. The radioactive waste inside them will still be a hazard in tens of thousands of years.

So the promise of unlimited cheap electricity was a lie. If you remove government subsidies from nuclear generation coal, gas, hydro and solar are all cheaper. If you add in the costs of waste storage and decommissioning we are looking at the most toxic white elephant in human history. Incredible as it may sound, governments around the globe are still planning to build more of these poisonous money pits, further evidence of the stupidity/corrupt nature of our leaders.

Grumpy Bob
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: Johndoh on March 10, 2018, 01:04:53 AM
Countries are like long queues of traffic, the are invariably led by the slowest and least competent
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on March 10, 2018, 04:27:57 AM

All VERY well said Spot on Bob.

The 3 million comment was a gem!

Goes with my indignation when they say " these new ones can't/ Don't have the same problems as the old ones yet the old ones that know are flawed are never shut down.

I really don't think the way things are going the waste is going to be a problem in even 100 years.  Couple more of these things go up the right way and there will be nothing on earth left for it to be a problem or threat to anyone.

Your last sentence about building more is possibly the ultimate example of human stupidity.
There are quite a number on the drawing boards ATM as well as a good amount that have been identified as being highly questionable from various safety POV yet still allowed to operate.

When the next one goes up it will be the same BS all over again. They will find it was an accident everyone knew would happen but no one did anything real and effective about  and we'll get the same denials and insults to our intelligence from the vested interests.... if the media, largely controlled by those with a stake and their mates, even give it a mention. 
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 10, 2018, 06:15:59 AM
I really worry that we are leaving future generations with a toxic and polluted planet. Carcinogenic air, sea full of plastic, all useful resources used up. A fiery, poisonous hell hole.

How did we achieve this in such a short time? Greed, stupidity, unaccountable politicians and over population.

What can we do about it? A total change in the global economic model is required. Chasing ever increasing growth, in a finite environment, is madness. Why has no one figured out that what we need is no growth and a massive decrease in population. Imagine how well off we would all be with the same amount of money and resources shared out amongst half as many people.

I am not advocating for war, famine or disease but if we don`t do something soon you can be absolutely sure that nature will. Locust plagues always start with excessive breeding and end with famine and extinction.

Still grumpy Bob
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 10, 2018, 06:24:41 AM
Hey Glort, if you have a spare hour or so watch this, it`ll scare the sh1t out of you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOykY2SMbZ0
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: BruceM on March 10, 2018, 04:42:09 PM
I concur Bob, both on nuclear power operations safety, waste disposal, true cost of power produced and the obvious need to immediately begin reducing human population if we are to keep some quality of life on this planet for future generations.  Alas, humans don't like coping with collective type issues or beyond their own immediate, puny lifespan. 


Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: LowGear on March 10, 2018, 05:50:27 PM
I try and keep in mind that the single most powerful population control, besides the government of China, is personal wealth.  As the wealth of the people of a nation rises the birth rate falls. 

As for the big die off that's coming?  Who knows?

Oh yeah.  Folks that are pro atomic power just don't understand the human population or how long 20,000 years is.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: LowGear on March 10, 2018, 07:42:03 PM
I just finished the YouTube article.  Really an eye opener.  Well worth the watch.

When we're all millionaires we will have cured the problem.  It's simple math.

Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: BruceM on March 10, 2018, 09:33:00 PM
Thanks Bob for that link. I just watched Prof. Bartlet's presentation myself.  He did a great job.  We are living in a Ponzi scheme promotion.



Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 10, 2018, 10:20:56 PM
Thanks guys, its a pretty impressive lecture. Highlights a lot of the problems we are facing, sadly it doesn`t offer any solutions.

I hope that by alerting people to the reality of what is going on some of us will be prepared.

Perhaps Elon Musk isn`t crazy wanting to go and live on mars.

Bob
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on March 11, 2018, 10:03:48 AM

I have seen that, if not something that equates to the same conclusion before.
I think it's inarguable. THE soloution to the worlds problems is ultimately don't keep endlessly putting more people on the planet.

Round here, they are planning on 33,000 new homes in the next 4 years having started on teh target last year.  you drive around and see whole hills and valleys far as the eye can see being formatted basically into suburbs and you can see what that picture looks like in reality.
Pretty scary and the stupidity of it is plainly visible.

So hell bent on more and more but never much on fixing the problems and getting things right before they go further.

As for Musk, to me he's nothing but essentially a con man and one of the very people driving this ever more and more  mentality.
I will be interested to see if he and his company are even around in 12 months time.

He has proven many times he can talk things up way beyond his ability to deliver on them. The clock is ticking and he's burning Big cash.  It's pretty much crunch time now. If does not start delivering on some of these promises and hype, He's going to go down as just another big talker but unable to deliver.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 11, 2018, 10:57:47 AM
Yes, I agree that Elon Musk is all mouth and trousers however I find it alarming that so many billionaires are researching ways to get off this planet, rather than spending their money on trying to protect it. Do they know something we don`t?
Bob
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: LowGear on March 11, 2018, 05:31:12 PM
I'm thinking Elon or his his buds anyway just haven't seen the rule of 70.  The first step, in most programs, to work or cure a problem is to recognize it and say "Hello, my name is Casey.  I abuse the doubling of stuff and refuse to change my ways!" 

The common second step is to blame others and turn the thermostat up to 74.

Elon and Zuckerburg have enough math to understand this principle completely.  And Bill too.  Interesting the big swingers in pop culture all started with studies in mathematics.  Plastics of the 21st century.

I noticed that the rule of halving wasn't discussed. 
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: BruceM on March 11, 2018, 06:20:17 PM
Ha, yes, all we need is a modest 3% reduction in population every year.  Quite politically palatable.  ;)

Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 11, 2018, 10:02:01 PM
If you accept that people only live to a maximum of 100 years, then it stands to reason that for a stable population 1% must die every year, matched by reproduction also at 1%.
Anything that increases mortality or decreases fertility would have a positive effect. Medicine is bad, contraception is good. The jury is still out on same sex marriage.
Bob
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on March 12, 2018, 12:33:30 AM

No Doubt this will prove me to be the cruel mongeral bastard I am but anyway.....

I have a real problem these days with this " Save the staving Children " type charity/ programs etc.

When I was a small boy, I would go to school and put .2C in the sock like all the other kids and we would have these fundraisers to send money to feed the starving, give them medicine, teach them to read, whatever.

50+ years on, I still see these appeals and do gooders all trying to save the still staving children.
To my way of thinking, If you have been at something 50 years, spent billions on it and the problem is still there, it's a fail and you need to take a very different approach or just walk away.

Further more, whom are these starving Children? I see that they now come from some different places but the majority still come from teh same places they did when I was a kid.
What did all those .2C I and all the other kids at school donated achieve? Did we save some Kids? If so, are these kids not now the ones starving or in fact more likley, their Grandchildren?  Did we save anyone from hunger or just perpetuate the problem so MORE kids went on to suffer and have no  food or clean water?

Sorry, you won't catch me giving 1 cent to these causes not because I think they are bullshit.  If there are still starving kids after 50 years and I'm pretty sure they were trying to save them well before I came along anyway and there is still the same problem or as the appeals tell me, the problem is growing worse, then it's time to shut the whole thing down, stop and take a good hard look at why it's failing.

My grandmother always used to say they would do better to sterilise these people first and feed them second and as politically incorrect and horrific as that sounds today, I can't say I disagree with the idea.  If you can't feed the people you have, then clearly the first thing is to stop the problem growing.

One thing I would be happy with in population reduction is what we have discussed before here, trying so hard to stop the idiots killing themselves.
If they are such weak links in the gene pool, let nature takes it's course!  If they can't keep themselves alive, then they shouldn't be relying on others to do it for them.

One thing to have people wear eye and hearing protection, quite another to have to drum it into them not to use a power tool while standing in a swimming pool Or have to tell them not to ride a motorcycle over a cliff.

I am always amused by the " Don't try this at home " warning.
I don't have a race track at home, I don't have a 40ft tower in the back yard, I don't have explosives, or so many other means to do what they are doing at home anyway.
I often wonder if by " at home" they mean you should do it at someone elses home? Maybe at work?  Often they aren't doing the stunt at their home so maybe they mean I should go do it in a carpark or on some vacant land like them.

I wish they would be more specific an d tell me where I should do the stunts I can replicate.
I am on the lookout for a bicycle to put up on the roof of the house and rind it off onto my mate lying on his back on the ground, lesgs apart to see if it does really hurt him or me.   Have to do it at his house through cause the vid I saw said " Don't try this at home"
They must know it will work better at my mates place. !

Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 12, 2018, 03:18:12 AM
I guess we are both cruel bastards then. I completely agree that the money that has been pumped into these organisations has failed to alleviate the problem, indeed you could argue that it has made the problem worse.

I object very strongly to tax payer funded overseas aid when we still have so many problems of our own. Charity begins at home.

As for being subjected to harrowing pictures of starving children on the TV, while I`m trying to  eat my dinner, makes me furious. If these charities spent less on administration and more on service provision I might begin to take them seriously.

As for the corruption of the governments in famine hit regions it beggars belief. I remember the Live Aid concerts to feed the starving in Ethiopia. They shipped millions of tons of grain there to feed people, suddenly the cheapest place to buy grain on the world market was Ethiopia. No doubt a lot of corrupt port officials made a killing. I believe one of the biggest buyers was McDonalds.

F**king speechless,
Bob
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on March 12, 2018, 03:04:09 PM

You raise a couple of other pet peeves of mine Bob.

Seems to me the second some back arse shiphole has a tsunami or a stiff breeze, we have millions and millions of $$ to send them at a moments notice.
Of course there is NEVER  ANY money to feed or help the homeless, enough housing for low income earners, look after pensioners properly, fix schools or pay for another doctor in a country hospital or a mile of other things badly needed right here at home.
Always money to give to someone else, especially those that would like to blow us al up given half a chance but never any money to fix the problems at home.

Pisses me right off.

Your comment about the grain is interesting.  I always wondered and was annoyed we gave these people money and not goods. I mean WTF are you going to buy with money when there is nothing left standing to buy it from. Probably take said money and spend it in a country other than the one that gave it to you because you can get the materials you need cheaper else where.

If we are going to give money away, why not be just a tiny bit smart about it and instead of giving money, use it to buy a locally made product that keeps the workers in a job or gives some that aren't something to do and keep your own economy rolling along. send the good on a localy oned ship, load and off load it with aussie workers and give them something they can use right then like hammers, nails and timber not cash where there is nothing left standing to supply it.

  As a lot of these places we rush to help are corrupt little hell holes where the grand Poo bah lives in luxury that makes Bill and Don look like paupers while the rest of the country owns 2 chickens, 3 goats and a transistor radio between the 7 million of them, there should also be some observers sent to see the relief gets to where it's supposed to or it's shut off and sent back the minute something sus goes on.  Said observers packing .223's and wearing flack jackets over their camo uniforms would be the right start.

I'm all for helping others but even the most brain dead idiot could figure out getting your own house in order before you went worrying about your neighbours would be the logical and obvious thing to do.

As for the starving kid shown at dinner time, ever notice the parent holding them looks good and fat like the Turkey for Christmas dinner?

That parent or their parent was probably one of the starving kids my generation saved and look how well fixed that problem turned out to be....  Oh, err, wait.... ummmmmm.........  Well the parent with the Nike Runners and the Iphone 6 isn't too hungry at least

I wonder how they will peddle these charitys and their monthly donations to the next generation......

"This is Xenxbu. His family were evicted from their mud hut because they couldn't afford to buy dirt. now xenxbu is homeless and has no food or water. Some times xenxbu  can't check his facebook or update his status for several days at a time because there is no where to charge his phone.
No child should have to suffer like xenxbu.  Please give generously so Xenxbu and his family can afford taxi fare to go 120 miles into the village and have their phone charged.  For only $25 a month, you can let xenxbu live a normal healthy life with a charged battery and unlimited credit.  Why not dig further into your heart and soul and make a contribution of only $9254.73 so the tree xenxbu lives under can have power connected with a USB outlet so xenxbu can again text all his friends, check facetwitgramsky and lead a healthy normal life like any other kid living under a tree with no food or water.
Could you say no to this carefully selected forlorn looking donation raising face??"                                                                               
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 12, 2018, 11:39:31 PM
Hey Glort, quality rant. I`m with you about giving money rather than genuine aid. Giving money is easy: first you set up an appeal fund, second you deduct 70% of the donated funds for administration, third you transfer the remaining balance to some corrupt official in the effected area. All of this can be done at a computer console in an air conditioned office. No effort or skills required.

Sending genuine aid would require multilingual people skilled in purchasing, shipping and distribution. Far too difficult!
Please don`t misunderstand me there are some very good organisations doing this sort of work, Medicine sans frontier and the Fred Hollows foundation spring immediately to mind. I would have added Oxfam to that list but recent revelations about sexual exploitation by aid workers in effected areas make my blood boil.

Many years ago, while living in the UK, I had some dealings with the Prince of Wales Trust, a charitable organisation set up to provide training and opportunities for disadvantage young people. A very worthy cause you might think. I was invited to a meeting at their headquarters, on arriving I discovered a row of 20 or more shiny new Mercedes Benz motor cars in the car park. No doubt one for every executive on the board. I very quickly found better things to do with my time.

There are some very well meaning and committed people out there who devote their time and energy to helping others. The problem, as usual, is that the management/executive classes see these organisations as a career opportunity with deep pockets. They exploit this to benefit themselves rather than the poor sods they are supposed to be helping.

Still F**king speechless.
Bob
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on March 13, 2018, 11:34:49 AM

I have had little to do with charity's, not much because I'm too much of a mongeral to be concerned about others, but the dealings I have had have been real eye openers.

I was asked to photograph an annual charity ball for a well known supermarket chain. I was doing a lot of these things and it never ceased to amaze me how elaborate they were and there never seemed to be an effort to economise on things like food, drink and entertainment but other smaller vendors like myself were always given the " it's for charity" line no matter what quote you tendered.

In dealing with the head organiser whom I do believe truly had his heart in the right place and worked his arse off on his own time to make this happen, I was accidentally sent the budget sheet for the event.
Holy Hector!

The band was like $10K. the floral arrangements about the same. There was a list of stuff like printing menus and place cards that ran a heap more unnecessary dollars, decoration hire at a price that had to be taking the piss, coverings for perfectly upmarket chairs, it was an upmarket function centre it was being held in, and so it went. I'll admit, I don't understand this game but to me, there were so many needless things on that list that could have been cut back on or deleted all together without lowering the quality of the night or in fact anyone probably noticing. That would have meant additional tens of thousands of Dollars going to the cause rather than being absorbed in overheads. I subtly mentioned this to the head guy after the event and he agreed but said he was only the figure head of the committee and other people thought they had to have it all and he was outvoted.

In fairness, the night cost about $250K and raised a bit over mill so it could not be said it was not effective but I could not help the feeling for the most part, it was really an excuse for people to have a pissup and a great night out largely at guests company's expense or at very least, a tax write-off for themselves.

Getting that spreadsheet was one hell of a help and an eye opener to me though. My quotes literally more than doubled for that sort of work and if there was even a hint of lowering my rate, i'd hit them with a few ball park figures of what I knew these events now cost and tell them I was less than 2% of the overall budget and then point to the glowing references I had and the list of companies I had worked for.  I never had to cut a cent off my prices again.
Yeah, I got in for the kill like everyone else but I sure as heck wasn't earning what most of the other people in that room were ( and certainly werent driving what they came in) and wasn't like anything they saved with me wouldn't be squandered elsewhere.
Besides, my kids who worked with me on these things deserved the best I could do for them before I worried about anyone else.

I did a lot of corporate functions as well where they spent huge sums on the event, one where they gave everyone there a high end laptop for coming BUT, that was coming out of the company's coffers and there was never any suggestion they were helping anyone than themselves which was fair enough.

Another Charity I was involved with was fun and then incredibly sad and frustrating at the same time.

I came across a bloke selling used computers on fleabay. I had a requirement for some of these low power machines  so I sent a message, how much could he do me 20 for?
He gave me his number and it turned out he worked for this charity that helped disabled people with various appliances and engineered products. It might be something like a ramp for the back steps or a special crane to lift someone in and out the bathtub and they did a lot with Modified Bicycles for kids.
This guy had won over a few gubbermint departments to donate their old IT gear to them and they would refurb it with the help of volunteers and onsell the PC's mainly to make money for the charity which was multi divisional.

I got a good deal on some other computers because they weren't selling any anyway because they were too low power and the guy literally had pallets of the things. They suited what I wanted so I bought 20 at a good price and another 10 were loaded in the wagon because there was space left over! I was also given a couple of huge old servers because there was no way to sell those. Very handy for my purposes though. One of them weighed 80Kg, pulled 3000W of power and took a good 5 min to boot up the 16Hdds which sounded like a gas turbine aircraft winding up. I think it's total storage capacity was about 800Gb ( less than my not so new PC at the time) but it did have some astronomical amount of RAM.

The guy running the computer division was truly a do gooder of the best kind. A real solid, upstanding nice guy. I was given the royal tour of the place and it got me to thinking.  Their problem was really one of marketing and promotion.  I did some head scratching, got the splinters out my fingers after wards and got back to the guy with an idea.

I went back with a load of my gear and will all the experience of 20+ years of commercial and advertising photography behind me, shot these computers so they looked as good as a fresh Chocolate cake. I was asked if I could do a photograph of a piece they had just finished engineering so rather than the crappy snap they were thinking, I took it into the office which was now a studio and shot that too. Then I saw a board with the staff head shots so I set up for that and got them all in small groups and did the best pics most had ever had. Then I saw something else and went round and shot most of the place for their up coming annual report.  Spent the day there and you would have thought I had donated organs not  a few pictures.

I re wrote the Fleabay ad, the guy used the pics I took and followed my advise to offer a guarantee on the machines and sell them as complete units with screen, KB etc which they had. I did up a simple page on their website and a mate set up a drop down ordering system where they could add options, pay by CC and the company would get an order sheet printed out complete with shipping label to slp on the thing as it went into the dock for the courier.

Suffice to say they sold more in that next 7 days than they had in total in the 6 months they had been going and it snowballed from there. 
The other part of my cunning and brilliant plan was to contact other charity's whom operated OS and offer them these Machines at a good price.  I knew  from a mate that many of these places up north in New Guinea and the islands were lucky to have one old half working machine in a whole school. Having a machine that was loaded with teh standard office type suite and some other programs would be light years ahead of what they had even if it was near useless here. They were even keen to get old tractor printers and lasers that they could afford were a dream come true!

That worked nicely as well. They guy pushed it well and worked hard on it and before they knew it, their biggest problem was getting the machines out the door fast enough. They were selling them by the pallet load as well and had a waiting list.
There was still the problem of the unusable machines and things like old UPS systems etc.  I pulled some strings with brother in law who was in management for a waste company and he put me on to their recycling division and an associate in that.  Another small section that did a LOT of work was set up and staffed by some handicapped people whom pulled the machines to bits and sorted the components. CPU's and ram got good money as did HDD's  and heat sinks when stripped and sorted. Steel back then got decent money too and the left over plastic was taken away for nothing as part of the deal. They went from 4 old retired guys coming in a couple of days a week to this great big table seating about 16 people with all the helpers they could muster and a few more people just sorting and packing stuff in the warehouse and keeping the guys whom were reloading and checking the machines supplied.  It was going like a very well lubricated with dencorub machine.

It was all nice and cosy except for one thing like in a fairy tale. The director of the place was a complete and utter arsehole and every demeaning name you could think of as well. The guy was clearly out of his leauge and knew that the person that should be running the whole show was the guy he spoke like crap too. 

The big problem was this blowhard director had been elected, on a huge salary, on the promise of raising millions a year and expanding the charity, quadrupling it's " clients" and had done nothing but send the joint into a spiral.  The computer guy on the other hand was a very quiet achiever and now just short of 12 months into setting up his idea,  was now making 4 times the revenue of all the other departments put together.
Of course blow hard knew he was out his depth and who was threatening to take over his job even though that person wouldn't touch it.

The upshot was the director did all he could to strangle the computer dept and made it so hard the other guy left. So did everyone else in the department when they heard the other guy was going and a few more from other places in the company handed in their resignations as well.  The foundation then outsourced the " business" to another charity who had no idea and it went down quick.
 The main foundation is still is going but it's a real 2 bit operation now.  I got a phone call a couple of years back from them wanting donations. I told them they would never get a cent out of me and exactly why... they had pissed their golden goose up the wall and abused it in a disgusting fashion and I would never have a thing to do with any organisation that let this happen to such a good and loyal person they were lucky to have.
 
I got a call back from the then director whom knew there had been a severe problem but by the time he arrived, there was no one left from that time to tell him exactly what happened. I sure filled him in!

He asked if I happened to know what became of the guy that ran the computer section before? I said last time I spoke to him he was moving interstate with his disabled daughter and was going to work with another foundation in SA. I told him, you could offer him a million bucks a year and you'd never get him back and I don't blame him.

One moron did so much damage and undermined all the good work of another outstanding guy and all the other morons whom were his buddies in the organisation let it happen.








Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 14, 2018, 02:18:24 AM
What a shame that some a**hole always has to spoil things, No doubt he got a promotion and pay rise as a reward.
Reminds me of my time in the military where the only way to get rid of a useless individual was to promote them. You would then be over quota on that particular rank and they would be posted elsewhere.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: LowGear on March 15, 2018, 05:05:32 PM
Yes to you very hard and very very bad asses of the world.  Keep a large segment of the population poor and ignorant.  It's the only moral or smart thing to do with them all.  They will continue to over populate and live in shit holes (just quoting the head screwball).

We will be able to set around on our self-righteous pompous parts and feel superior.  Yes, your assessments are valid and words with which to manage the universe.

Rant on my privileged brothers and sisters.  Rant on!
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: basewindow on March 15, 2018, 09:40:41 PM
Not interested in going into politics glort? You'd have my vote. You're not alone in your thinking fellas.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 15, 2018, 10:44:52 PM
We shouldn`t encourage him but Senator Glort does have a sort of ring to it. :laugh:
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on March 16, 2018, 02:18:02 PM

Pffft! Could you imagine me in Politics?
I'd be assassinated the 2nd day.

50 of us together -might- survive for a while but one on their own would have no chance.  Too many vested interests with too much power behind the scenes pulling the puppets strings to make them dance just as they do to the steps they want them to do.

Me with some power, Ha! I can only Imagine.....
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: broncodriver99 on March 16, 2018, 02:35:29 PM

Pffft! Could you imagine me in Politics?
I'd be assassinated the 2nd day.

50 of us together -might- survive for a while but one on their own would have no chance.  Too many vested interests with too much power behind the scenes pulling the puppets strings to make them dance just as they do to the steps they want them to do.

Me with some power, Ha! I can only Imagine.....

Not to mention the speeches, oh the hours long speeches.  ;D
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 16, 2018, 08:46:33 PM
You could start your own party, then you get to choose which vested interests you want to be bribed by.

First speech should start "We`ll fight them on the servo forecourts."
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on March 17, 2018, 02:03:27 AM

Not to mention the speeches, oh the hours long speeches.  ;D

Well they couldn't be any more boring than the ones I hear now and they would be about 99.5% more bullshit free!
I'd gaurantee they would be 100% Less insulting to peoples intelligence.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on March 17, 2018, 02:10:29 AM
You could start your own party, then you get to choose which vested interests you want to be bribed by.

First speech should start "We`ll fight them on the servo forecourts."

Now see that would be a problem.

Being so anti big business and corporate greed, None of them would want to come near me nor I them.
And besides, who do you think the most likely people are to hire the hit man??
Hint: It will be the ones I close all the loopholes with paying next to no tax and  getting away with blue murder. I'll raise revenue there and start diverting funds for the benefit of the average battlers who are getting screwed in order to support the rich now. 

Who am I kidding?
I'm not even going to survive the election campaign without getting knocked with policy's like that!
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 17, 2018, 04:15:08 AM
Vote Glort, eat the rich!  :laugh:

Bob
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: basewindow on March 17, 2018, 09:19:46 AM
Think I  may have started something....
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: LowGear on March 17, 2018, 06:36:38 PM
Good Grief!
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on March 18, 2018, 07:33:44 AM
Good Grief!

Precisely!

Don't worry Casey, I was raised by my grandparents. The elderly would have never had it so good as if I were in charge and ill even let you come live here if you'd like.

Hmm, The Lister party.
Won't that confuse the heck out of the Journos and everyone else?
I think everyone here pretty much would have a place on that. We have some real smart cookies here that I have no doubt would be able to do a great job running any country.

And you know the truthful fall back, we could NOT do a worse job than what's being done now. I mean, really, we couldn't. People here do not have the mind set to make the bone headed mistakes those running the show do now.
I cannot envisage for a start us all sitting round saying right, we need some new trains and during all the discussions one of not saying  " what size are they and what is the Max dimensions they are allowed? 
By the same token, the thought of building them OS when we are perfectly capable here and did up until a decade or so ago.  We could build them cheaper. We are already paying 10's of thousands of people ever fortnight to sit on their arses on welfare. Train them up, give them some skills and make them earn their money. You don't want to get your hands dirty or Chip a nail, that's fine, can't make anyone do what they don't want to... including giving  people money they are not earning! :0)

I went into the city last week by train with this thread in my mind. I mentioned it to the Mrs.  We got out at a city station and she turned and said look. Didn't know what I was looking at till she said " that gap is less than 10 CM. If they make the trains 20Cm wider, they are going to hit the platforms.
I said wait till they hit each other inside the middle of the city tunnels!

10CM may not be much but when you only have 5 Cm between a train of 8 speeding 40 Ton carriages and an essentially immoveable object.....
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: LowGear on March 18, 2018, 06:49:39 PM
Quote
they would be about 99.5% more bullshit free!
I'd gaurantee they would be 100% Less insulting to peoples intelligence.

Hmmmmmm, I'd start with my posts.   :~)

Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 20, 2018, 06:42:08 AM
Hey guys, Glort is right about building them here. Ford and Holden (General Motors) have both recently closed their manufacturing facilities in Australia. The tax payer is now having to pay to feed, house and cloth these people and their families. It shouldn't be too difficult to retrain a person skilled in the production and assembly of motor vehicles to build trains.

The government are always banging on about trying to balance the budget, yet they would rather import trains that won`t work than create employment for our own people.

What a crock of sh1t, shame on them.
Bob
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on March 20, 2018, 09:15:09 AM

It's a very sad thing that our icons of automotive transport are basically no more.

There can never be a thing built for out unique conditions like OUR Fords and Holdens.
The replacements, lets face it, on both sides are garbage.  Built in Brazil or Korea in factories that were bought cheap because they were problems to the previous owners by and large.

I will concede there was mismanagement in both camps on a corporate level but at a gubbermint level those facilities and labour could have been re trained to do so much else. We don't build Cars here anymore, we don't build ships or subs like we used to, we only make parts for planes and the gubbermint rail car building branch of the gubbermint, Comeng, is gone too. I came home on one of their bits of handiwork Tonight. Sure it was old but the thing had seats unlike the new trains where more people will stand than sit and they are still going and never were a problem.
Lets see how the things built by the lowest bidder go over the next 10-20 years..

We are selling anything worth a dollar and privatising as much gubbermint services as possible.  Hell the cops don't even do all the nabbing of speeding Drivers anymore. Part of that is done by a private bank !
Meat and crop production is being sold to overseas interests on a massive scale and we are going to the tubes fast as the idiots on every side of gubbermint can sell us off .

Spose the upside is we'll never be invaded. Too many countries would be invading their own interests and if some shithole  nation that can't afford us tried, there would be a lot of others keen to oppose them any detriment to their investment.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: ajaffa1 on March 20, 2018, 10:08:18 AM
Switzerland is a fine example of how it should be done, spend the money on infrastructure, invest in industry, teach all the people how to safely use firearms to protect themselves. Avoid expenditure on any armament that could be perceived as having an offensive capability.

Consequently they have one of the highest rates of employment, the highest incomes and some of the finest engineers and facilities on the planet. They also have one of the lowest murder rates and avoided being invaded in two world wars.

With all the natural and human resources  at our disposal how come we still have some indigenous people with no education and short life expectancy living in mud huts?

Farming out government investment to foreign countries is madness and only exacerbates the problems, when will we ever learn that we need to look after our own people first because no foreign power is going to?

Can anyone explain to me why we are importing reo-bar, made in China from Australian iron ore and coal, via Spain? It would surely make sense to make our own reo-bar, wouldn`t it? What does it cost to ship this stuff all around the world and what are the environmental consequences?

Rant over,
Bob


Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: LowGear on March 20, 2018, 05:44:16 PM
Sorry Gents,

But the capital stops at the board meeting and not the legislature.  You're simply blaming the wrong tribe.

Casey
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: buickanddeere on March 23, 2018, 02:42:10 PM
How are you combining nuclear warfare with power generated via a nuclear reactor ?
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on March 24, 2018, 03:40:22 AM
How are you combining nuclear warfare with power generated via a nuclear reactor ?

They both have killed and WILL kill a hell of a lot of people.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: buickanddeere on April 01, 2018, 12:24:32 AM
Take a look at the actual numbers of what people die of and get back to us. You will find deaths due to nuclear are very low on the list.
How much first hand experience do you have in the nuclear industry ?
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: buickanddeere on April 04, 2018, 01:54:40 PM
Hey guys, Glort is right about building them here. Ford and Holden (General Motors) have both recently closed their manufacturing facilities in Australia. The tax payer is now having to pay to feed, house and cloth these people and their families. It shouldn't be too difficult to retrain a person skilled in the production and assembly of motor vehicles to build trains.

The government are always banging on about trying to balance the budget, yet they would rather import trains that won`t work than create employment for our own people.

What a crock of sh1t, shame on them.
Bob

Where are these trains going to go and what will they haul ?
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: LowGear on April 04, 2018, 06:52:43 PM
Donald John Trump
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on April 06, 2018, 07:04:46 AM
Where are these trains going to go and what will they haul ?

They will carry people inter and intra city.
They can carry Grain, coal, ore, livestock, heavy machinery, food, manufactured goods and everything else they now send by road.

Trucks are a complete menace and scourge of our roads. Here they make up 12% of the vehicles on the road and are responsible for over 40% of serious accidents. There is not a day goes by without a truck accident makes the headline news.  Transporting goods by rail is far more efficient and removes a lot of traffic, long haul especially.
Different  taking merchandise from the rail head to the point of delivery than across states and country.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: LowGear on April 06, 2018, 07:42:56 PM
Why do so many people complain about corporate decisions whilst blaming the government?  These failures are a function of the corporate capitalistic model.  Great bait and switching but just not valid.  (A word associated with truth.)

I wonder how the battery powered trucks are going to affect trucking traffic.  This is going to be a really neat ten years.  I hope I make it just for curiosity's sake.

Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: buickanddeere on April 07, 2018, 12:39:34 AM
Why do so many people complain about corporate decisions whilst blaming the government?  These failures are a function of the corporate capitalistic model.  Great bait and switching but just not valid.  (A word associated with truth.)

I wonder how the battery powered trucks are going to affect trucking traffic.  This is going to be a really neat ten years.  I hope I make it just for curiosity's sake.

How will battery powered trucks can travel cross country.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: buickanddeere on April 07, 2018, 12:45:22 AM
Where are these trains going to go and what will they haul ?

They will carry people inter and intra city.
They can carry Grain, coal, ore, livestock, heavy machinery, food, manufactured goods and everything else they now send by road.

Trucks are a complete menace and scourge of our roads. Here they make up 12% of the vehicles on the road and are responsible for over 40% of serious accidents. There is not a day goes by without a truck accident makes the headline news.  Transporting goods by rail is far more efficient and removes a lot of traffic, long haul especially.
Different  taking merchandise from the rail head to the point of delivery than across states and country.

  If door to door rail transportation worked and was cost effective . Rail would be used for short haul instead of trucks. Rail only pays for Hub to Hub transportation of goods in sea cans. Or bulk cross country transport of crude oil, coal, grain etc. 
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on April 08, 2018, 10:03:13 AM
Why do so many people complain about corporate decisions whilst blaming the government? 

Maybe because here the gubbermint OWNS the railways, not private companies.
The gubbermints are as usual bribed and make arsehat decisions based on the profits of their supporters in big biz, not on what is the best and most sound decision.

I think it was you that put forward the example of oil being brought to your island because there was a back end on the transport cost rather than using the abundant geothermal energy available.  Same thing. Gubbermints do what makes money not what the best decision is.
I imagine our gubbermint makes a lot more on registration for trucks, fuel excise, stamp duty for insurance and a load of other things than what it would  supporting the ( now well dilapidated) rail network so that's what they do.

Gubbermints and Big biz have one overriding agenda,  MAKE MONEY.

Quote
I wonder how the battery powered trucks are going to affect trucking traffic. 

I don't see they will affect it at all. You will have the same ignorant moron drivers who think they own the roads piloting the things and doing stupid shit and complaining about the ever tougher laws being imposed trying to stop them killing themselves and other road users.  They will still be chewing up the roads, clogging up the roads and still representing an inefficient means of long haul transport. Truckwits will still be sooking about the high cost of rego, insurance and thinking eveyone else is on their roads. No doubt they will still be proving their low IQ by making moronic arguments like " If trucks didn't deliver to stores the shelves would be empty" like food and retail goods are the only things they transport.

I'm sure they will continue to break speed limits, drive over their hours, act like arseholes, cut other drivers off and represent a completely disproportionate amount of serious road accidents.  I don't see the tool the industry uses will change anything to do with the ingrained beliefs and attitudes not the mentality of the largely Low IQ members the profession attracts.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: oldgoat on April 08, 2018, 02:40:42 PM
Is that because trucking companies are all private enterprise. I guess pollies make popular decisions to try and regulate road transport because self regulation for most enterprises has proved to be a failure in the past. Mostly because there are reams of rules but nobody to bother policing them.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: LowGear on April 08, 2018, 07:27:35 PM
I'm guessing here glort.  But I'd suspect that Australia is much like the US in publicly owned assets.  Here in the states they are managed by publicly owned corporations.  That includes CEOs and board members with all kinds of "other" agencies. 

I'm from the camp that believes that without consequences the hope for change is stupid.  I worked in a privately owned home for unhappy teenage boys.  "No Consequences - No Modification of Behavior." was our favorite mantra.  These kids were already operating in the corporate model.

Mother Truckers are everywhere.  You just have bigger trucks.
Title: Re: Further evidence of the stupidity of those in charge
Post by: glort on April 08, 2018, 11:50:52 PM
Is that because trucking companies are all private enterprise.

I think it's a significant actor but not the only one.
Certainly there is a lot of corner cutting by companies and independent operators.  Pressures are put on delivery times and maintence of vehicle can be appallingly behind. They have checking stations on main highways here for things like overloading and safety issues and what they catch just beggars belief but they do it every single day.  The trucking industry is like certain religious groups that say one thing publicaly but have a completely opposite agenda and attitude amount themselves.


Here the biggest trucking company in the country is Gubbermint owned. It's Australia post.  Their drivers behaviour is no better than anyone elses showing it's more the attitudes of the Low IQ drivers who can make big bucks at the wheel and certainly a lot more than their general lack of education would get hem else where.

I have been into the truck stops and the " Truckies only" lounges and heard the attitudes first hand. They really do see every other driver as a pest they have to put up with but treat and think of with the most contempt possible. As long as what they are driving is bigger than other vehicles on the road, their egos will be satisfied by having an offset to what must be the small Penis syndrome many suffer. How i's powered will be irrelevant.

At the big engine show last year there was a truck show in the same showgrounds.  They ran the 2 shows together so I hopped on the shuttle wagon that was being pulled round by an old tractor and rode that through the truck show.  Talk about boring!
All these trucks have the same chromed, bought from a catalogue parts and the pot bellied, middle aged, blue singlet ( Wife beater) clad middle aged beer swilling high school dropouts were standing round talking about the same boring crap by the hundreds, literally.
I didn't even get off the wagon and I'd seen enough.


Quote
I guess pollies make popular decisions to try and regulate road transport because self regulation for most enterprises has proved to be a failure in the past. Mostly because there are reams of rules but nobody to bother policing them.

Not quite that here.
Every time they make a new rule affecting the truckwits they go up in arms and start the predictable sooking about higher costs passed to consumers etc.
The rules are always aimed at reducing the accident rate and the public backlash from that. There is not a day goes by here without a truck is involved in a major crash and fatality. Never.  Many aren't reported in the city but in the country where news is a little less biased and the grapevine news runs strong there is more covereage.

The rules are made more stringent which the truckwits complain about but the thing is they are not obeying the ones in place or are circumventing them.
Here all trucks are supposed to be limited to 100 Kmh.  Can't begin to count how many times I have been sitting on 110+ by the GPS accurate to 1 Kmh and had some truckwit blow by or sitting on my arse trying to hurry me along. The speeds the cops catch these morons is insane.
Tougher restrictions, heavier fines and the truckwits have their usual hard done by sook.

Another thing here is logbooks to try and stop these idiots driving 20 hours a day and falling asleep at the wheel. That's just a log book the drivers fill in atm so little to stop them cooking said books. they know where the check stations are so know what they can get away with. You see lines of trucks just up the road from checking stations because they HAVE to take a break before they cross because they have driven so long even with the BS entries they can't do it any more.  With trains the Driver, with a dead man button, can only go so far and has to rest. The accident rate with trains is infinately lower than with trucks.

Electric trucks may remove some of the heros from the industry. When they can't make a noise and the trucks have things like distance separation and other things that reduce their  ability's as weapons and are quiet and don't make noise, a lot of the truckwits may go on to other vocations more suited to their abilities.... like digging holes or working the stop/ go lollipop signs at roadworks or stacking Boxes at the fruit market.

Policing here is extensive because it's a real revenue cash cow. The truck wits do all sorts of things to reduce costs and make up time.  there has been many cases where trucks have been found to have brakes disconnected in order to save wear on brake shoes etc.  There was a case about 2 years ago where a truck pulled into a check station that reaked. Inspectors found the underside of the thing covered in faces. The bright sparks whom owned it and drove together cut a hole in the cab floor so they could defecate as they drove along and didn't need to stop for that.  A subsequent investigation found holes in their log books miles wide and they were given a lengthy suspension before being caught driving again only months later.

Trains would alleviate a lot of these Human problems as well as the ones of highway congestion and safety.
Maybe something like max Distance for trucks and goods could be implemented so that goods going over a certain range HAD to be rail transported.

Clearly the consequences here are not enough. If they were of sufficient weight that  3 strikes ended your driving career or transport business permanently, then things may change.

Here's a great clip of the moron, sook mentality of Oz truckwits. They are real tough till they come off second best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk9nHsgV39M