Lister Engine Forum

How to / DIY => Engines => Topic started by: Johndoh on February 10, 2018, 02:31:25 PM

Title: LR1 question
Post by: Johndoh on February 10, 2018, 02:31:25 PM
Hi Guys
I just bought a lister LR1 seems ok turns over etc. It's set for 900 rpm. I want to run it at 1500 rpm is it really as simple as changing the spring to a red one? The weight numbers are the same, thanks!
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: dieselgman on February 10, 2018, 04:18:07 PM
To attain stability for fixed speed generator use they often used a weight and spring combination on the governor as well as a stronger speeder spring. I would have to confirm exact details for LR though. We don't see too many of them in the US.

dieselgman
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: Johndoh on February 11, 2018, 08:22:06 AM
Thanks Gman (http://)
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: dieselgman on February 11, 2018, 02:54:25 PM
From your chart I see you will need to change both the speeder spring and the pair of weight springs. Thanks for posting your chart picture!

dieselgman
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: Johndoh on February 11, 2018, 08:09:04 PM
And finally I cant get SAE10W engine oil locally would 10W40 be ok? Thanks for your quick reply gman it's good to get the correct advice!
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: AdeV on February 11, 2018, 10:10:26 PM
And finally I cant get SAE10W engine oil locally would 10W40 be ok? Thanks for your quick reply gman it's good to get the correct advice!

10W40 will be absolutely fine (as various contributors have noted over the years; any modern oil will massively outperform the sort of oils which were around when the LR engines were new).

You can get straight SAE10 oil from some places - Morris Oils do them, if you've got a distributor near you.
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: Johndoh on February 12, 2018, 12:36:22 PM
Thanks Ade I will change the oil today when I get it attached to something solid like a railway sleeper. Diesel Gman I read a thread on here some time ago about a lift pump I think it was for an LR1??? There's no fuel tank with this engine so I can either spend three times the price of the engine on a new fuel tank filter housing and all brackets or use a Gerrycan and a lift pump connected to a Land Rover series fuel filter. I have the Gerrycan and some other gubbins and as it's going to be a generator a long run tank is very appealing aesthetics not so much. Very long way of asking if the LR1 can accept a lift pump and do I need other parts as well as the pump!
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: dieselgman on February 12, 2018, 01:22:08 PM
For a stock mechanical lift pump your LR will require a pump tappet and guide installed in the proper crankcase door machined to accept them. It is common enough on later SR models and I think the same crankcase door will fit both models. If your setup has 12vdc power, and you lack the proper Lister parts, then it will be much easier to simply add an electric lift pump.

dieselgman
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: Johndoh on February 12, 2018, 07:42:21 PM
Maybe electric or gravity feed I've not decided yet, electric would be best I think I'd need something like a motorbike battery and a solar charger??? I got it back to the shed today and started dismantling it to check the piston etc. The flywheel has LD stamped on it could it be the wrong crankcase door fitted the serial number plate is attached to it? The flywheel seems much smaller than the old LD1 I used to have. The injector looks like the attached photo. Thanks Gman
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: dieselgman on February 12, 2018, 09:29:49 PM
That injector looks like a ST model... but hard to tell with the nozzle capped.


dieselgman
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: Johndoh on February 13, 2018, 08:39:23 AM
That injector looks like a ST model... but hard to tell with the nozzle capped.


dieselgman
I will get a photograph of the injector today would the part number be of help? Sorry for all the questions. There were no washers under the head nuts is this normal?
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: dieselspanner on February 13, 2018, 09:20:38 AM
KISS!

If you're going to bolt it to a sleeper (railroad tie, in American) I doubt you'll spoil the aesthetics with a fuel tank mounted on angle iron bracketry for a gravity fed system.

Use  a Jerry can,  a bronze BSP fitting brazed into the bottom to take a ball valve will make filter changes easy and bleeding with a 2' head of pressure is simple too. A short length of copper brake pipe brazed into the top will take care of the any return.

Drill a small hole from the underside of the cap in to the 'tunnel' where it swivels to make a dust proof vent.

No pumps, no electric or battery to bother with either and if you want extended run time, double up the Jerry cans and leave both valves open, they'll equalise, and it will save the work of plumbing the return to the second 'can, with a change over valve.

30 quid if you use new kit, very near nothing if you scrounge thro' the 'come in handy' pile.

Well, that's wot I think.........

Cheers Stef
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: Johndoh on February 13, 2018, 09:58:36 AM
Injector has a number etched or engraved on it  381 I couldnt get a good close up photo
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: Johndoh on February 13, 2018, 10:04:36 AM
KISS!

If you're going to bolt it to a sleeper (railroad tie, in American) I doubt you'll spoil the aesthetics with a fuel tank mounted on angle iron bracketry for a gravity fed system.

Use  a Jerry can,  a bronze BSP fitting brazed into the bottom to take a ball valve will make filter changes easy and bleeding with a 2' head of pressure is simple too. A short length of copper brake pipe brazed into the top will take care of the any return.

Drill a small hole from the underside of the cap in to the 'tunnel' where it swivels to make a dust proof vent.

No pumps, no electric or battery to bother with either and if you want extended run time, double up the Jerry cans and leave both valves open, they'll equalise, and it will save the work of plumbing the return to the second 'can, with a change over valve.

30 quid if you use new kit, very near nothing if you scrounge thro' the 'come in handy' pile.

Well, that's wot I think.........

Cheers Stef
Good thinking there Stef, I don't have the oxy acetylene kit and brazing is a bit of a dying art in Ireland. Perhaps there is another way to attach the outlet? I also have a 7 litre fire extinguisher and a wall bracket for it but the return pipe could be tricky going uphill? I'm off now to get the injector popped and a new washer. Thanks
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: Johndoh on February 13, 2018, 10:26:12 PM
I assume this is why it was sold as a non runner, thank God for Mr Muscle oven cleaner!  The fuel tank I'm using for testing is higher than a normal tank and I don't know where to route the fuel return pipe to. Could I route it to the intake or would the leakoff fuel rise to the tank? Other options are a 'T' piece into the fuel line or a can for collecting the drips. We have the washing machine and dryer in the shed, I don't want the shed to smell too much or the wife will kill me or worse!
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: dieselgman on February 14, 2018, 01:03:45 AM
Leak-off fuel will rise a reasonable distance to your fuel tank. A couple feet or more would be no issue.

dieselgman
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: Hugh Conway on February 14, 2018, 01:27:20 AM
" I don't have the oxy acetylene kit and brazing is a bit of a dying art in Ireland. Perhaps there is another way to attach the outlet?"

You can use a bulkhead fitting. Google brass bulkhead fitting or stainless steel bulkhead fitting. Get them with fuel resistant O rings. If you can't reach into the jerry can to install one, thread a bit of string into the filler opening, and out of the hole you have drilled into the bottom of the tank. Slide the male part of the bulkhead fitting down the string, etc.

 I use them. They work great. Not expensive, easy to install

Cheers,
Hugh
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: dieselspanner on February 14, 2018, 06:32:21 AM
Get a couple of steel BSP fittings, one for the outlet and another for the return then nip down to your local sheet metal fabricators, with the holes pre drilled in the Jerry can / fire extinguisher and they will be able to TIG weld them in, a couple of minuets apiece should do it.

It's the sort of thing that should cost a fiver as a lunch break or Saturday morning job.

I've used a 10 litre or so extinguisher as a fuel tank on my 6/1, it doesn't look too out of place, mounted horizontally.

Cheers Stef
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: Johndoh on February 14, 2018, 11:37:24 PM
Thanks for the replies guys I like the fire extinguisher as a tank I'm thinking if I drilled say a 10mm hole and get a nut welded over it I could add a fuel cock? Thanks Gman I'm happier now adding a longish run on the leakoff pipe, all I need now is a way to connect leakoff pipe or an alternative
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: dieselspanner on February 15, 2018, 03:40:46 PM
Don't use a nut, get a 1/2" fitting and cut the female end off it then a 1/2" male / female  ball valve will fit into it allowing a hose tail with a suitable sized 'barb' (the bit you fit the hose over) for the pipe that feeds off to the fuel filter.

If you are using a CAV type filter, like this.....


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Single-Fuel-Filter-Assembly-Cav-Glass-Bowl-1-2-20UNF-with-FREE-SPARE-FILTER/320514647686?hash=item4aa0296686:g:LjsAAOxyZqhRhc2h

If you order 3 hose tails to suit your rubber pipe with the filter housing, and provided the feed from the tank is down hill all the way (so any bubbles of air in the filter housing can make their way uphill back to the tank unimpeded) you can run the leak off line back to the  fuel filter, two of the ports are supply and two return, usually, but get the hose tails to fit the filter housing, they are not generally BSP -can't remember what they are tho'

Cheers Stef
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: Johndoh on February 15, 2018, 07:52:23 PM
Don't use a nut, get a 1/2" fitting and cut the female end off it then a 1/2" male / female  ball valve will fit into it allowing a hose tail with a suitable sized 'barb' (the bit you fit the hose over) for the pipe that feeds off to the fuel filter.

If you are using a CAV type filter, like this.....


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Single-Fuel-Filter-Assembly-Cav-Glass-Bowl-1-2-20UNF-with-FREE-SPARE-FILTER/320514647686?hash=item4aa0296686:g:LjsAAOxyZqhRhc2h

If you order 3 hose tails to suit your rubber pipe with the filter housing, and provided the feed from the tank is down hill all the way (so any bubbles of air in the filter housing can make their way uphill back to the tank unimpeded) you can run the leak off line back to the  fuel filter, two of the ports are supply and two return, usually, but get the hose tails to fit the filter housing, they are not generally BSP -can't remember what they are tho'

Cheers Stef

Thanks Stef I like the look of that. I was going to buy this tap https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Massey-Ferguson-135-148-240-250-Tractor-Fuel-Tap-Vertical-Type-with-Filter/222005784617?hash=item33b0937029:g:YiEAAOSwqfZaVeST (ftp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Massey-Ferguson-135-148-240-250-Tractor-Fuel-Tap-Vertical-Type-with-Filter/222005784617?hash=item33b0937029:g:YiEAAOSwqfZaVeST) to attach to a 3/8 BSP nut welded or braised to the fire extinguisher. I think having a tap in case I need to disconnect the fuel system would be useful? I wasn't aware that would work with the return line the info is much appreciated. It will probably be cheaper to bite the bullet and buy a lister tank but not near as interesting! BTW the railway sleeper isn't a runner as a base, oil changes would be awkward  but I have an old trolley base I got from a garden centre it can be fitted with castors and as it's metal I can weld angle iron to it for a tank.
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: dieselspanner on February 16, 2018, 08:53:52 AM
A 3/8" BSP socket, like this.....

tps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLACK-MALLEABLE-IRON-PIPE-FITTINGS-BSP-1-8-4/111564613281?hash=item19f9c4e6a1:m:mkeD8U0tsT_b-I5ScFB43pg

Cut it in two before welding it on to the tank, and weld the cut end 'cos they're taper threaded,


And a 3/8" mini ball valve, like this.......

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Brass-Ball-Valve-1-2-3-8-1-4-1-8-BSP-MalexFemale-Thread-Air-Compressor/232617336590?hash=item362912df0e:m:m-RHBmfTth-MQAxvvWLGGcg

With a hose tail like this.....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Male-Thread-Pipe-Fitting-x-Barb-Hose-Tail-Connector-BSP-Stainless-Steel-HighQ-xi/192430390361?epid=581984623&hash=item2ccdbebc59:m:m3SEz0VOAKPGTFpmDj8v7-Q

And you've done the job for around 7 quid with half a fitting left for next time.

The Massey tap has a UNF thread on the outlet side, so finding a hose tail might be a little more difficult.

A filter before the filter is a bit overkill IMHO, the CAV filters are around a fiver each and if you fill from clean cans they'll last ages, think how long the diesel filter lasts on a car

If you've got a decent scrap yard in your area you can pull the diesel filter , housing and as much plumbing as you can from any truck / van / car, just keep a note of the filter number and make, no matter what brand, and any car spares place should be able to cross reference it.

And the set up could be even cheaper!

Cheers Stef
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: Johndoh on February 16, 2018, 10:39:20 AM
Scrap yards and a rant.

Stef, you can't go into a scrapyard here in Ireland only the front office. This is to do with our compensation culture and judges that live in a parallel universe. Here's a couple of examples. A guy breaks into a country store/garage and on the way out he sees the cops and goes back in again. He cuts his scrotum in the dark store room trying to find an alternative exit and sues the owner for damages! A local farmer drowned himself this week. He was being sued by an uninsured driver that had been injured after one of his cattle escaped and the uninsured driver hit it. Because of this type of thing scrapyards don't allow you to pick stuff, they pay people to remove parts so that makes everything more expensive and you can't see stuff that might be useful.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Inline-Fuel-Filter-Assembly-8mm-Tails-With-Stop-Tap/253160745921?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

My mate has a tank off a ride on mower smaller than the fire extinguisher at about a gallon but it has an outlet pipe and a fuel level gauge built into the cap. worth considering?
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: dieselspanner on February 16, 2018, 12:39:35 PM
Hi Johndoh

Maybe you should consider moving over here to France, down at the local scrappie's you can run riot.

I'm nearly through putting a 1990's Land Rover Discovery 200 TDI motor in to a 1980 Series 3 Landy and the lads at 'Auto Puzzle' ( the French love a good Anglicised name!) are really helpful.  The air filter to turbo to inlet manifold connection looks like it grew there rather than the collection of bits from 3 different cars.

I'd fit the Mower tank straight off. if you plan the bracketry to allow for future mods you won't have wasted lots of effort and getting anything running is a good way of raising moral, if and when it turns out to be too small you'll have had time to scrounge up a few more bits for the 'long range' version.
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: Johndoh on February 16, 2018, 01:36:46 PM
Hi Stef

I'm waiting on the injector leakoff to be repaired to be repaired the engineer thinks someone pulled the injector with vice grips. I was talking to the brother about using this as a generator he thinks a 24 volt system with a pure sine wave inverter and run the engine slow. It would almost sound like a CS if you were outside the shed! I only run 2-3 energy bulbs and the television during power cuts, I'm currently using a Yanmar that screams it's head off but it's a very sellable item if I had another up and running. I have picked my fuel filter based on your last post https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Landrover-Early-90-110-Fuel-Filter-Assembly-Ex-Military/263479129630?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Landrover-Early-90-110-Fuel-Filter-Assembly-Ex-Military/263479129630?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649) I cant find anyone selling Hylomar here is there an alternative? Indian Head shellac? Caulk? Because there's a rubber hose going to a banjo hosetail on the pump there's gaps allowing oil to weep out I have a proper fuel pipe but they're expensive and I'm reluctant to cut it
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: Johndoh on February 16, 2018, 09:30:09 PM
Ok update. The tank on the ride on is useless it's plastic and odd shaped, however I think the chassis would be a good base for the engine when he strips it. I saw this on ebay Stef what do you think?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Listeroid-CS-Style-Fuel-Filter-Assembly-Stationary-Engine-Cartridge-Fuel-Filter/371407162513?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Listeroid-CS-Style-Fuel-Filter-Assembly-Stationary-Engine-Cartridge-Fuel-Filter/371407162513?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649)
Does anyone know the size of the pump door bolts? I have lost two
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: dieselspanner on February 17, 2018, 09:55:55 AM
That would do it, and the connections are in BSP.

As the connections are vertical you could put a tee before the inlet and connect the return in as long as there's a more or less vertical path for the air to climb up to the tank and vent, or fit the tee directly under the valve on the tank.

The Early Landy one might present problems with connections, I don't know what thread the fittings are. It's usually possible to tap them out to 1/4" or 3/8" BSP and use standard hose tails.

Cheers Stef

Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: Johndoh on February 17, 2018, 10:37:39 AM
I like the cast iron look of that filter, landy had double connections that was the selling point. Would I need a double length banjo and a hosetail for the return if connected to the fuel inlet side? The tank wouldn't be totally vertical but should be 50-60 degree slant on the feed pipe. This site needs a thanks button, thanks Stef. Paul
Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: dieselspanner on February 17, 2018, 07:36:56 PM
The easiest way to connect both the supply and the return to the inlet is with a tee.

For the sake of argument I'll assume you are using 1/4" BSP fittings and 1/4" bore fuel pipe.

mount the filter body in such a position that there is a constant rise between the filter and the fuel valve on the tank, 50 degrees is fine, with the vibration of the running machine they'll make their way to the tank and vent to atmosphere.

Screw a nipple into the inlet side of the filter......

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAINLESS-STEEL-316-BSP-EQUAL-HEX-NIPPLE-1-8-To-4-RATED-150lb/112775152618?hash=item1a41ec43ea:m:mVnlC9WcKIm05tzVT6jJv3Q

Then screw a tee 'on it's side' onto the nipple......

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAINLESS-STEEL-316-BSP-EQUAL-TEE-1-8-To-4-RATED-150lb/122932444164?hash=item1c9f583c04:m:myS7D0Nlqc3sT-g-yGwwYQw


Then screw in the two nipples, one horizontal, one vertical.......

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAINLESS-STEEL-316-BSP-EQUAL-HEX-NIPPLE-1-8-To-4-RATED-150lb/112775152618?hash=item1a41ec43ea:m:mVnlC9WcKIm05tzVT6jJv3Q

Make all the joints with a sealing compound, like this, or similar. PTFE Tape is not fuel proof....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Superseal-937-Hydraulic-Pneumatic-Joint-and-Thread-Sealant-10ml/131947012049?hash=item1eb8a79fd1:g:DTEAAOSw65FXtXnG

Fit the supply to the vertical hose tail and the return to the horizontal....

Bob' your mother's sister's live in lover!

Cheers Stef










Title: Re: LR1 question
Post by: Johndoh on February 17, 2018, 07:51:57 PM
Thanks Stef bit of thinking to do, the injector isn't back I may have to buy one that'll ruin my day here's how it looks now
Paul