Lister Engine Forum
Slow Speed Diesel Engines => Changfa Engines => Topic started by: 38ac on July 29, 2016, 10:45:56 AM
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I think the hobby as a whole is in decline. I also don't see near as much WVO collection as I used to. All of my restaurant customers have gone back to selling their oil to a protein company and I don't see near the adds on Craigslist anymore.
I was late getting into the game. The EPA was really cracking down on the roids and the horizontals were all but gone when I raised my interest, that's why I ended up with an original Lister. I looked into the horizontals at first but the unknown quality and the question of parts availability in the future made it seem a poor long term plan. At least with the Lister I can buy a bunch of spares and let them sit on the shelf until needed. I admit the higher speed horizontals are probably much more up to the task of smooth power generation but I read a few accounts of changfas experiencing flicker as well so decided I would rather deal with a Lister.
Ultimately I think it is a hobby that is fueled by disposable income and the years of hard economic times really put a damper on the number of people who could afford to play. When both the horizontals and the roids were cheap and available on Ebay and everywhere else they had much more exposure and garnered much more interest. I suspect that the roids have suffered the same decline in interest.
Really though I would say the price of solar coming down is the most likely reason. Currently the cost of an engine, generator head, fuel supply, and whatever else is needed to make the set-up usable is enough to outright pay for a 2-3kw solar array and that is without counting on tax subsidies. The solar requires no fuel, little or no maintenance, comes with a warranty, and provides a return on investment. I know personally other than liking to tinker the only reason I invested in a Lister is for a situation when the grid is out and for times when the sun isn't shining, then again I have a Honda generator sitting in the shed that will do the same thing.
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It might be worth another look at the Lister Alpha series??? They offer a very lightweight and small footprint, 1800rpm for stable power output, current production and plenty of parts readily available, very easy to work on (with just a few caveats), huge numbers being brought into the used marketplace from ex-military. The water-cooled units are available in 2, 3, 4 cylinder versions including a slightly beefed-up turbocharged 4-cylinder. Tough little reliable engines. These are the models built in Kansas up until a year ago. You can find them rebranded as Cummins, Onan, New Holland - same exact engines.
dieselgman
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Why have they fell out of favor??
Because they're not beautiful.
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It might be worth another look at the Lister Alpha series??? very easy to work on (with just a few caveats)
You mean like fuel injection pumps that have the element integral with the pump body, making them a non serviceable and throwaway part, and a cylinder head that is not doweled, hence the head gasket totally relies on the cylinder head bolts for correct location.
Here is someone who has a LPW4G engine, and whom seem to be less than impressed with it, granted his number 1 complaint concerns prices of spares (as he bought from a main dealer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JzYlYoh6aQ
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Those guys obviously are being badly abused by their Cummins dealer... do NOT rely on the misinformation provided there. Lister/Petter full list pricing is only a small fraction of what he is quoting. They also do not appear to know what they are doing inside that little engine... too bad they are having a bad time of it. I would be angry as well!
In my experience Cummins has always been difficult to do business with and very expensive with their power generation stuff. I do not like dealing with them at all. Lister/Petter is not known for being inexpensive either, but they have generally justified their position by keeping the quality of everything they offer very high. Do business directly with Lister dealers...
The Alpha engine did have its share of problems in its early versions, but those were gradually worked out. I find it a very easy machine to rebuild and maintain, and it is proven solid and reliable. There are at least 50,000 of them in service with the US Military (maybe a lot more, because that number is just one contract over a 25 year time-frame).
dieselgman
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Just another example... precisely the same Mitsubishi engine gets rebranded and licensed to various companies under different colors and designations. Mitsubishi S4S, Lister DWS4, Caterpillar 3044, Perkins 804D. Cat charges list price above $9,000 - Lister $5,000, the others are in between I believe. Just a few of the externals and a coat of paint make the difference.
dieselgman
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I don't think Changfa's fell out of favor. I think people would buy them if only they could get them.
Noisy...yes, but very durable and tough.
I sold a couple of extra units that I had this year. They sold very quickly when I advertised them.
Veggie
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Maybe people who love the Chinese diesels are hoarding them? I know that I have ended up with a pair of S1100's and an 1115 since I got my first one. I wasn't looking for another engine really, they just sort of found me.
Ron.
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I would love to find one of the 4.5hp yanmar LA series clones that were imported for awhile. Only can get the 6 and 10 hp versions now, which are to tall for where I want to use it. It has gotten quite difficult to find the Chinese clones, be it hopper cooled or air cooled. Mike
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What I need is one of the LA170F clones with a keyed crankshaft and electric start. Dont need several, just need one good one. Seem hard to come by in the USA. I have cash in paypal waiting if someone can hook me up with one. Hopefully soon before the engine in my Wheelhorse gets any worse. Mike
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As previously mentioned the EPA and changing demographics . 2-3 generations ago boys grew up working with their Fathers working on equipmemt on farms and family owned small businesses. Now the men at that nostalgic stage and tinkering with stuff are far and few between. The last few generations being raised in town by single Mothers has wiped out whole generations of future mechanical hobbiests , fisherman, hunters etc.
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How do I find you to discuss purchase? For shipping cost reasons, what part of the world are You In?
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I have a Changlian zs1130 30hp (video here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R31ZxpoJZg )
and a Yanmar TF70 7hp that I would part with....or trade for a Listeroid
I can be reached at dan at hurdfarms.com
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buickanddeere,
There are still a few of us young bucks around! I'm 25 and have been tinkering and building as long as I remember (because of my dad and his dad both being teachers in rural MN you fixed it yourself or it didn't get fixed!). I'm looking for an affordable small Diesel engine to tinker with. I have a Subaru Robin RGD5000H I decided is not what I need anymore (trying to sell it), I want something with a flywheel and water cooled. It just seems very difficult to procure a slow speed liquid cooled diesel these days. I found 1 listeroid for sale in a neighboring state with a gen head but they want $3000 and I will most likely have to rebuild the entire thing to make it reliable (half the fun I know, but It would be a lot more fun for $1800 or less). I'm open to the Chinese models as well but I have never seen one for sale in my area.
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Now the men at that nostalgic stage and tinkering with stuff are far and few between. The last few generations being raised in town by single Mothers has wiped out whole generations of future mechanical hobbiests , fisherman, hunters etc.
Yep. Not only that but the ones who do work on equipment have become "replacement artists".
Don't repair or rebuild it ... just replace it.
To some extent you can't blame them because the replacement parts can be very inexpensive vs the time and effort to remanufacture your own. But having the skill to machine, repair, modify, and problem solve is a very useful skill.
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Good point - Time -
Mine seems to roar away, and I'm semi retired!
Cheers
Stef
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Reliability is everything, is it quicker and cheaper to have a spare everything to hand in the event of a breakdown?
I don`t know the answer to that question, it might be cheaper to buy two identical generators, when you only need one. That way you will always have a backup for your backup. When they are both busted you can probably scavenge the parts to get one going.
Personally, I think it is better to spend your money on quality old equipment and restore it. Old Lister engines, with a bit of work, will probably outlast and out perform modern Chinese or Indian sh1t by decades.
Bob
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I worked on maintenance for a short while in an animal feed mill in Blandford, Dorset, that was flat out 24/7 from the first frost of winter to half past April.
Everything ran until it stopped or broke, then you fixed it with one of the numerous back up spares.
One night I ended welding up the discharge chute on 'pony nuts'which had worn through on a sharp bend, the foreman wouldn't stop the line so I wedged a sheet of 10 gauge - around 2mm - steel across the whole width of the chute and set to. after a couple of tacks the molasses coating the inside started to burn, I stopped and the the foreman said 'Keep going Stef, the next batch thro' will damp it down'.
The whole room filled with smoke but as he said, every couple of minutes a ton or so of pony nuts hurtling past kept the chute cool.
The whole system was known as 'Breakdown Maintenance', as opposed to 'Prophylactic Maintainance'. It's not stupid as it would seem, instead of changing out a motor with a 500 hour scheduled working life, for rebuild, the same motor might well run for 2000 hours and then be total scrap. However the cost per hour run would be comparable.
Cheers
Stef
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Breakdown maintenance is the lowest form, practiced by most private companies (like power co.s) trying to maximize profits. It eliminates the need for good management and minimizes parts replacements. Another good reason to be your own power co., if you have the aptitude.
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Hi Stef, we used to be expected to do similar sorts of things in the saw mills. Welding in an environment that is laden with sawdust is very challenging and we always had a fire spotter with a fire hose stood beside us. Got soaked a couple of times when things got away from us. :laugh:
Bob