Lister Engine Forum

Alternative fuels => Waste Motor Oil => Topic started by: mobile_bob on July 01, 2006, 12:59:54 PM

Title: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: mobile_bob on July 01, 2006, 12:59:54 PM
just thought i would post re blending waste oil in with diesel

we recently purchased a one ton ford, 87 model with the old 7.3 mechanical engine (diesel)
it came with dual tanks so it made for a good test dummy

my partner mixed 15/40 waste oil at 60/40 (60% waste oil), it was triple filtered and filled the rear tank.

the truck now is started off the front tank and pure diesel, run to temp and switched over while running, switched back over to purge the system making for easier and cleaner starts.

results:

a.  no more smoke than usual

b. a smoother running engine, likely from slower burn rate of the oil/diesel fuel

c. more power, but unable to document how much more at this time, it just pulls a bit harder

d. mileage increased from 12 mpg to just over 24 mpg!

i wouldnt suggest this thick of a mix, for one of the new direct injection engines or electronic injection, but it does seem to work on this old 7.3l ford
in our business, converting waste oil to 3 dollar plus fuel source is very significant to our bottom line. besides we generate a couple hundred gallons per month.

bob g
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: Doug on July 01, 2006, 03:45:07 PM
When I worked for Pheonix Petroleum we made fuel oil from waste lubricants....

My service truck got aprox 10% better ecconomy on "Pheonox Fuel" because we had a slightly higher BTu content and cetane rating. It was a little sootier than pump fuel.

Doug
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: Ironworks on July 01, 2006, 10:54:26 PM
I dump my crankcase oil in my fuel tank on my diesel truck just so I dont have to dispose of it.  I have no problems and yes I too noticed the engine seemed to run better.
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: albany dbd on July 02, 2006, 04:27:11 AM
ive been running my 2001 dodge on 75% waist motor oil for 35000 miles no problems i do filter it well and will thin it a bit more when it gets down around the freezing mark with is only a couple months here in oregon. 
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: ronsmith on July 06, 2006, 07:49:23 PM
I've been burning waste motor oil and used hydraulic oil in my petter without noticing much difference in the smokiness of the exhaust. I started it up on vegetable oil for the first run . It smoked on veg. oil, diesel, wmo and hyd oil. Just the nature of the beast I guess.  :'(
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: xyzer on July 06, 2006, 08:14:22 PM
albany dbd....what part of oregon are you? I'm in Albany.
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: albany dbd on July 07, 2006, 01:34:35 AM
im in albany also riverside dr.
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: profoisin on July 18, 2006, 05:47:01 PM
Hello I run 80/20 waste oil 80 watse 20 diesel but all of my oil is filtered trough tolet paper rolls they are cheap and you can burn the roll after about 50 gallons. all you need is a canister with a alltread and two plates on each end you must remove the cardboard first though. My 14 hp runs great and has about a couple hundred hours so far. Also where we live there are oil wells everywhere is seems to run ok on crude also.
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: emerald on July 18, 2006, 07:02:36 PM
I run on 100% filtered waste engine oil. Works fine in a genuine CS. No problems and close on 1000 hours up on it.


Emerald
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: xyzer on July 18, 2006, 07:51:50 PM
I would like to start burning my used motor oil  and hydraulic oil in my Dodge and Listeroid. It appears from the lurking I've been doing The biggest problem (mess) you have to deal with is filtering the waste oil. What seems to be the best cheapest and cleanest way to this? How well does it need to be filtered?

Thanks
Dave
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: GIII on July 19, 2006, 04:41:08 AM
We burn waste oil in the Atlas, 2-71, and listeroid with no problem at about 30-40%, even winter starting is ok.  The fuel system is such that a transfer pump circulates at 10 gpm through a 40 micron filter.  Be careful about the quality of the waste oil; no water, waste solvents, other boogers...
A thought if this is to be used in an on hiway vehicle is that it will ualify as untaxed fuel if one is caught by the guys with the sysphon tube.  It would take alot of waste oil to make up for the $5000 fine.
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: Doug on July 20, 2006, 02:46:09 AM
Fliter coloured fuel through bread and fullers earth removes the dye....

Doug
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: hotater on July 20, 2006, 05:40:58 AM
The local cheese factories use enzymes that're shipped in poly tanks surrounded by an aluminum frame.  They hold 266 gallons and have a ball valve at the bottom and a four inch (!) opening at the top.  A friend has used them for waste oil and old fuel for a couple of years and they hold up well.

Here's the challenge:  Design a passive (no power) filter that fits on the top of the tank and stays in place and is weather proof.  I'm looking for a way to dump sump oil and have clean oil drain into the poly tank and NOT have the occasional rain be funneled into the oil tank. 
  A paper towel filter with a collector tank that's 'pressurized' by  a heavy plunger lid that seals AND forces oil though the filter??

Ideas?
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: Firebrick on July 20, 2006, 06:25:02 AM
How about just a small tank (5-10 gal) mounted above the paper towel filter which is above the other tank.  It could be straight gravity, or maybe pressurized by a line from the air compressor, or even placing a check valve to allow air into the small tank but not out.  It the tank was then painted black, the sun in the day time would heat and slowly pressurize the tank, the check valve prevents it from imploding when it cools off at night. Wouldn't work as well in the winter however. 
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: rcavictim on January 01, 2007, 04:45:19 AM

A thought if this is to be used in an on hiway vehicle is that it will ualify as untaxed fuel if one is caught by the guys with the sysphon tube.  It would take alot of waste oil to make up for the $5000 fine.

You could argue that the oil in the tank was a fuel additive to increase the lubricity of the new pump diesel which without the additive would  damages your expensive FI pump.  Since it is not as effective as the expensive store bought additives, you have to use more per gallon.  ;D
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: rcavictim on January 01, 2007, 04:51:16 AM
Fliter coloured fuel through bread and fullers earth removes the dye....

Doug

Doug,

You are speaking of bread as in from a bakery?  Where can i obtain Fuller`s earth.

I tried filtering my diesel diluted WTF through a batch of unscented kitty litter a while back and it definitely came out much cleaner and drier but was still just as dark.  I`d like to filter even better than this.
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: Doug on January 01, 2007, 06:07:50 AM
Look for some Russians with a gas station franchise.
Best place to learn about filtering the dye from fuel.....

Doug
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: Elk County Dutch on January 01, 2007, 05:00:42 PM
rcavictum, An old operater buddy of mine said you could get Fuller's earth at an old 9mom and pop) drug store. I haven't checked the one here yet, closed today. Ole buddy said they used the stuff on brakes and clutches that slipping too much. Gene
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: rcavictim on January 01, 2007, 06:24:28 PM
rcavictum, An old operater buddy of mine said you could get Fuller's earth at an old 9mom and pop) drug store. I haven't checked the one here yet, closed today. Ole buddy said they used the stuff on brakes and clutches that slipping too much. Gene

Thanx ECD.  Where does one find Mom & Pop drugstores?  I`ve never seen any in Ontario.

How does it help a slipping clutch?  I am aware that it is a good oil absorbant so is it that aspect that helps, in which case why would a solvent degreaser not do just as well, or is it acting as a fine abrasive or frictive (is that a word?) interface?
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: MeanListerGreen on January 01, 2007, 06:44:50 PM
Is Fullers Earth the stuff they use in pool filters?
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: wrightkiller on January 01, 2007, 11:26:55 PM
You are thinking of Diatomaceous Earth (D.E.) for use in pools.




Fullers earth:
A highly adsorbent claylike substance consisting of hydrated aluminum silicates, used predominantly in fulling woolen cloth, in talcum powders, as a filter, and as a catalyst.
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: rcavictim on January 01, 2007, 11:59:13 PM
Yes but where can I buy 50 lb. bags of the stuff?
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: wrightkiller on January 02, 2007, 12:48:50 AM
http://www.fullersearth.com/     but you are not going to like where its from   its full of sand





http://www.reade.com/Products/Minerals_and_Ores/fuller's_earth.html
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: MeanListerGreen on January 02, 2007, 05:20:10 AM
LMAO...thats a bit ironic.  People are going nuts trying to get the sand out of their Indian engines and now are contemplating importing Indian sand to filter dye out of diesel fuel to use in their Indian engines.   :D
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: listerdiesel on January 02, 2007, 07:33:09 AM
Scania used to fit a centrifugal oil filter on their truck engines, with a small direct full-flow filter in the line to the turbocharger.

AlfaLaval made oil and fuel centrifuges, and still do, for bulk treatment of liquids.

Shouldn't be too hard to make something up that processes waste oil to get rid of the dirt and carbon in there.

We have some old Ruston & Hornsby sales brochures on running their horizontal diesels on waste engine oil, seems like it was quite a big thing in the post WWII years, with big garages/service stations deriving all their electricity from generators running on this fuel.

Peter
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: rcavictim on January 02, 2007, 03:21:33 PM
Scania used to fit a centrifugal oil filter on their truck engines, with a small direct full-flow filter in the line to the turbocharger.

AlfaLaval made oil and fuel centrifuges, and still do, for bulk treatment of liquids.

Shouldn't be too hard to make something up that processes waste oil to get rid of the dirt and carbon in there.

We have some old Ruston & Hornsby sales brochures on running their horizontal diesels on waste engine oil, seems like it was quite a big thing in the post WWII years, with big garages/service stations deriving all their electricity from generators running on this fuel.

Peter


Peter,

Very interesting!  I am running an experimental research setup which I have cobbled together in the past six weeks using  what I know about using waste motor oil and bunker-c in a spray nozzle oil furnace having developed that technology to a degree of perfection when stationed at a remote research outpost in Canada`s Western Arctic bacik in the 80`s. I have been building the fuel processor after getting my recently purchased (thanx AltoPro!) JiangDong 175A engine all set up on a base with 2 kW generating alternator head recovered from a Kohler gasoline plant.

I had first light yeasterday and ran the engine at near full 1800 RPM output (1.8 kW load at 115 VAC, 60 Hz)) for just over four hours on my stock of filthy WTF, All appeared to be nominal until it started to miss and stutter and then I noted my DIY injector heater element had failed open circuit.  This caused my FI temp to drop from 150 C to about 100 C, where it runs with self engine heat.

Today`s work schedule is to remanufacture and install a new DIY IP heater aftwer trying to determine what caused the failure of the first one.  It was eight parallel strrands of #22 AWG Nichrome, all about 12 inches long inside a continuous sleeve of ceranic interlocking cupped beads.  The pack ran non-incandescent at 3 VAC.  Lot`s-o-amps.  60-100 watts depending on supply xfmer tap.

I plan a descriptive expose on this forum once I am able to post pictures.  I use heat and gravity to remove the water and two fuel filters, a water blocking 10 micron and then a 2 micrton Caterpillar filter to clean the fuel oil prior to hitting the IP pump. 

I had given a lot of thought to fabricating a centrifugal filter and still do want to give that a try.



Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: rcavictim on January 02, 2007, 03:29:21 PM
LMAO...thats a bit ironic.  People are going nuts trying to get the sand out of their Indian engines and now are contemplating importing Indian sand to filter dye out of diesel fuel to use in their Indian engines.   :D

Well that is cleverly poetic alright but NOT my desire at all.  It would cosat me $500+ to import a bag of sand from India  (sh*t it would cost $100 to get it shipped to me from nearby Toronto!) so that is not an option.  I am sure there are stocking suppliers here in North America since thuis is apparently used in huge industrial quantities all over the globe in the petroleum and other industries.

I am not trying to pull the dye out of fuel to cheat the evil taxman for use on the road, so color is of no concern.  Blackness indicating carbon and other floating particulates, many of an abrasive nature are!
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: robc on January 02, 2007, 04:17:59 PM
I've been looking for a source of Fuller's Earth also. Never mind the Indian stuff... apparently it is
mined here in Canada.

I've just discovered it is also called "Bentonite" ... have a look at a link here:
http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/mms/cmy/content/2003/clay_e.pdf

The author works for Natural Resources Canada... I'd bet he or someone in the department
could point us to a supplier:

"The author is with the Minerals and Metals Sector,
Natural Resources Canada.
Telephone: (613) 995-2917
E-mail: mdumont@nrcan.gc.ca"

I found http://www.wicp.com/ and have emailed them re purchasing a hundred kilos of Calcium Bentonite

Rob
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: unimogr on January 02, 2007, 05:38:55 PM

That's interesting, bentonite clay is used in water well drilling, my father buys it by the skid for drilling overburden, if I remember right I think he gets it for a couple dollars a bag.

It's been a few years since I ever handled the stuff, but I think it came in lumps about 1/2" in dia and not powder, but I could be thinking of hole plug which is basically the same thing just bigger chunks.

These guys carry the stuff, but I don't know if they'll sell a bag or not.

http://www.drillwellsupply.com/home.html

Jason



I've just discovered it is also called "Bentonite" ... have a look at a link here:
http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/mms/cmy/content/2003/clay_e.pdf

Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: CD in BC on January 03, 2007, 05:03:18 PM
Bentonite clay is available in 50lb bags from pottery suppliers for about $25.  It comes as a fine powder, like talcum.  Bentonite is amazing stuff.  A cubic inch has a total surface area of something like 800ftsq. IIRC.

It has been used internally and externally to treat various toxicities/wounds for thousands of years.  (Only use internally if sold for that purpose)

I've read that the drawing power of some types of clay is so strong that it has been used to 'pull' solid objects that could not be reached by surgery. 

I heard a local inventor has produced a system to purify contaminated water by aerating it with bentonite.  Removes oils & metals well enough to pass waste water standards.   The place that was using it does steam cleaning of engines/undercarriages etc. so they produce a lot of contaminated water.

If you've swallowed something toxic and can't regurgitate it, a tablespoon of bentonite mixed in warm water will absorb a lot. 
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: Jim Mc on January 04, 2007, 03:11:05 AM
We have some old Ruston & Hornsby sales brochures on running their horizontal diesels on waste engine oil...

Peter, any mention of how the waste oil was to be filtered prior to use?
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: hotater on January 26, 2007, 01:22:51 PM
To remove the red from diesel run it through three feet of common floor dry....(low grade Fuller's earth with about 60% diatomatious earth) and then an cloth or felt filter before a good engine filter.

Production is very slow through a six inch pipe...possibly a gallon an hour at 30F ambiant.

NO!  It ain't my machine!!  I just put it together for an experimentor. 
OH,  He says one small dab of Cobalt Blue oil paint to ten gallons gives it a nice tint.   ;)
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: Phiberoptik on February 02, 2007, 03:11:17 PM
I'm running a chinese 495 diesel on an ST-20 direct drive. I run 75% WMO and 25% #2 fuel oil blend. I use fleet oil that I pick up locally with my home grown tank trailer with an old oil truck pump, a 25hp Onan engine, and a 200gal horizontal oil tank.  Here's how my setup works. I blend the raw WMO and the #2 oil in the storage tank.  I bring the oil blend unfiltered into my run tank passing it only through a water seperator.  Then it goes into my heated prefilter system.

I use a plate type stainless steel heat exchanger heated by engine coolant. before the fuel enters the heat exchanger, it passes through a 12V three way solenoid valve. This allows me to leave the system full of #2 FO at shutdown so it'll start without ethering it to death. Next it goes on to the first stage prefilter. This prefilter is nothing more than a felt type filter commonly used on a residential oil burner, it's commonly known as a "general filter". The replacement element can be had for under $2.00 and needs to be changed monthly under continuous use. This, of course, depends on the cleanliness of the waste oil.

After leaving the general filter, it goes into a 10 micron Garber spin on oil filter. Again, this is something that's designed to use on residential oil burners. I put the Garber optional restriction guage on top of the Garber filter housing so it shows me the restriction in the first stage and the second stage at the same time. Any time the restriction gets out of the green scale, just change the first stage filter and it drops right back down. With about 1000 hours on it, I've not yet had to replace the Garber filter, but I like the assurance of having a 10 micron filter in the prefilter.

From there, it goes through the stock 2 stage fuel filters that came with the genset. Once it reaches the injector lines, I put a Carlin nozzle line heater close to the injector on each injector line to heat the fuel again. I attached these little ceramic heaters with spring clips that I bent in the vice and covered the joint where the heater meets the line with red silicone to avoid heat transfer into the air.

I start the engine on #2 fuel oil, let it run until the coolant temp is 70C, then flick the switch to the WMO blend. It works great. The only time I ever had any problems is when I tried to run straight WMO in it. I noticed that the exhause was starting to show some light smoke and running in #2 didn't clear it up. I removed and cleaned the injectors and went back to the 75/25 mix. 500 hours later it's still going strong and makes no smoke whatsoever. Come time to shut it down, I run it for 20 or 30 minutes on #2 fuel oil to clean the WMO mix out of the system and make for easy starting.

This won't work in a two pipe system unless you use a holding tank after the prefilters to put the return fuel through or it's just going to plug up the first stage prefilter very quickly. My generator set has a one pipe system, so this makes it a lot easier. If you add a tank, you'll need to vent the air / vapor out of it continuously with a float vent or similar device, but it should work just fine. If you need to vent, make sure to run the vent line back to your holding tank, so if the float valve gets stuck you don't make a mess.

raw fuel blended in the holding tank -> Water seperator ->Three way solenoid valve -> plate type heat exchanger -> General oil filter -> Garber oil filter -> both stock oil filters -> injector line heaters -> then into the engine.
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: SCOTT on February 02, 2007, 05:11:26 PM
Phiberoptik
Hi  I am interested to get your impression of the Chinese 495 series engines.  What do you think of the quality?  Where did you buy it from etc.  The prices on these are attractive but I am weary of the quality and avaliability of parts.  Let me know your thoughts on the engine.

Thanks
Scott
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: Phiberoptik on February 02, 2007, 06:26:11 PM
The 495 engine itself appears to be of good quality. George at Utterpower.com told me that it uses a lot of Changfa 195 parts, so I guess I could probably get some of replacement parts from Hardy Day if I needed to get them in a hurry.

The cooling system is a little on the inadequate side and it could use an oil cooler as well, but the generator set came with a microprocessor controller that monitors it for high coolant temp, high oil temp, low oil pressure, overcurrent, and overspeed. It gives me a nice LCD display that shows all the info at any given time and if it goes into emergency shutdown it stores the reason why for my review when I go look in the shed to see why it isn't running. The safetys work well, I've seen that happen.

I bought the whole set from generatordepotusa.com for about $4K. Like all chinese import stuff, plan to do some work on it to chase out the gremlins. Here's what I had to do to it for repairwork (and a couple of band-aid fixes)so far.

Rear bearing in the ST-20 generator head needed replacement at about 100 hours. I used a standard 6309 double sealed SKF bearing obtained locally. The originally bearing was an open bearing and never should have been put into that envoirnment. The lubricant was apparently inferior and had hardened.

Front bearing on the ST-20 failed at about 250 hours. The drive plate was a real bitch to get off the generator shaft. I had to make a puller for it and use a bottle jack to get it off the shaft. The bearing was a 6310 and I used the same type of double sealed bearing as in the rear. Reassembly of the drive plate to the shaft was easy with a 10 lb sledgehammer and a block of hardwood.

Note: even the front bearing replacement wasn't too bad. It took me about 4 hours and that included making the puller. The rear bearing was even easier.

Vibration broke some wires in the control panel (mounted to the top of the ST-20). It also damaged a relay by breaking off the coil wire and destroyed both CTs that provide current input to the microcontroller. I repaired all the other electrical damage, replaced the CTs with standard 100:5 CTs that I bought on ebay, then I extended the wiring harness and relocated the control panel on the shed wall to prevent further vibration damage. more thn 500 hours since then and no more electrical problems.

The Radiator sprung a leak at around 350 hours and I took it to a local repair shop and had it fixed. It's an all aluminum radiator and it has steel rivets so they can solder the mounting panels to it. One of the rivets had cracked the aluminum from vibration.

I had to set a window fan next to the oil pan to keep the oil temp down. The oil pan is cast iron and conducts the heat fairly well. A little air movement makes a huge difference. I plan to remove the radiator and tank cool this into a minimum 500 gal tank before the hot weather and I'll set up a car radiator on that as a dump zone. I'll make an adapter place on my milling machine to get the oil in and out at the oil filter flange so I can just run it through a heat exchanger and use engine coolant to keep the oil temp down. Tank cooling the engine will allow me to reclaim this heat next winter for heating the house.

The engine itself hasn't given me any trouble at all to date except for a couple of loose bolts that neded to be tightened up. oil pan and alternator bolts. I had to clean the injectors once when I was experimenting with 100% WMO. It seems to like the 75% WMO mix. I haven't tried anything between 75% and 100% yet.

I'm happy with it. Sure it had a lot of little stuff that needed attention, but I kind of figured that since before I bought it.
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: Hillbilly Hermit on April 01, 2007, 02:31:26 PM
I dump whatever I get WVO or WMO in my 120 gal tank which is never full so I don't know the ratio (probably up to 50%) but that Detroit v8 turbo just keeps going like the energizer bunny gettin 10+ mpg in a 30k gvw bus with an auto trans. Never noticed any difference.
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: phaedrus on April 15, 2007, 05:33:56 AM
Right now we use pump diesel in a 6-1. Between that and the solar/battery/inverter system we only need the engine about 2 hours per day on average. I have about 20 drums of GKW (God knows what), stuff that came out of a garage that repaired cars. Mostly it's waste lube oil, but no doubt there's glycols and all the horrid rest. I need to clean this stuff up to use it as fuel in the 6-1 and also just to dispose of it responsibly.  I have plenty of time to think the process over, hence this post - I'm soliciting ideas, especially about books on the subject and on the chemistry.

Seems to me that the thing to do is to create a stainless batch tank where the material can be washed-stirred with water and settled, draining away the glycol-acid/base, alcohols, and associated stuff that likes water. This contaminated water can be evaporated to a manageable volume of gooey crud - and our local landfill will take it. It's a small total mass once it's evaporated. This leaves, of course, the oily part. Following this washing and separation the oily material'd go to a NAPA hydraulic filter at 10 microns, then through a (power steering) pump and through a 1 micron filter to a bulk intermediate storage tank. Dilution of the oily material with commercial petroleum diesel and/or gasoline or some lighter hydrocarbon  would then take place, with the object of reducing viscosity to some experimentally established level - perhaps close to the viscosity of 20W lube oil. This may be an acceptable fuel for the 6-1 in our Mediterranean climate. If so, then this diluted fuel would go to the bunker tank and be used to fill the day tank at the beginning of every run. I plan to use a propane "fumigation" system as an adjunct, primarily to minimize carbon accumulation in the engine at light loads. Induction air will be at saturation with water vapor for the same reason(s).

That's as far as I can see things now. I am uneasy about the pH of the fuel I'd have by this process. I am uneasy about whatever it is that I haven't thought of...

Ideas????
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: cujet on April 16, 2007, 02:14:23 PM
I do not think you need to go through so much effort.

I have a bunch of waste oil. It does settle over time to a "product" that would work well with little effort. The key is time. Gravity filtering it via a Motorguard TP micronic filter is sufficient to remove the smallest particulates that could affect diesel engine operation. A water absorbing filter could also be used.

Chris

Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: SCOTT on April 16, 2007, 08:19:46 PM
Jens
I suggest you send the unfiltered oil out for analysis and send another sample after filtering.  You will then have objective data on how well your filtering scheme works.  This is avaliable from various sources for about $20-$25 per sample.

Scott
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: phaedrus on April 20, 2007, 04:56:48 PM
Chris, the reasoning behind the water washing is to remove the water soluble glycols and so forth - this stuff being GKW from a garage I assume that they dumped in old brake fluids and antifreeze. Otherwise I would omit the water business and just filter.
Phaedrus
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: ronsmith on May 31, 2007, 02:02:44 AM
I have been running hyd oil mixed with about20percent wmo thats been filtered through a toliet paper filter with good results in a petter and my changfa also. The toliet paper filter catches the particles and sludge pretty good. When I change filters i use the roll to ignite brush piles.
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: rbodell on May 31, 2007, 02:46:02 AM
I see a lot of mention here about filtering WMO, but nothing about checking PH. Are we checking PH?
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: mkdutchman on May 31, 2007, 08:13:35 PM
I see a lot of mention here about filtering WMO, but nothing about checking PH. Are we checking PH?
How do we go about doing that?
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: CD in BC on November 12, 2007, 04:17:16 AM
Right now we use pump diesel in a 6-1. Between that and the solar/battery/inverter system we only need the engine about 2 hours per day on average. I have about 20 drums of GKW (God knows what), stuff that came out of a garage that repaired cars. Mostly it's waste lube oil, but no doubt there's glycols and all the horrid rest. I need to clean this stuff up to use it as fuel in the 6-1 and also just to dispose of it responsibly.  I have plenty of time to think the process over, hence this post - I'm soliciting ideas, especially about books on the subject and on the chemistry.

Seems to me that the thing to do is to create a stainless batch tank where the material can be washed-stirred with water and settled, draining away the glycol-acid/base, alcohols, and associated stuff that likes water. This contaminated water can be evaporated to a manageable volume of gooey crud - and our local landfill will take it. It's a small total mass once it's evaporated. This leaves, of course, the oily part. Following this washing and separation the oily material'd go to a NAPA hydraulic filter at 10 microns, then through a (power steering) pump and through a 1 micron filter to a bulk intermediate storage tank. Dilution of the oily material with commercial petroleum diesel and/or gasoline or some lighter hydrocarbon  would then take place, with the object of reducing viscosity to some experimentally established level - perhaps close to the viscosity of 20W lube oil. This may be an acceptable fuel for the 6-1 in our Mediterranean climate. If so, then this diluted fuel would go to the bunker tank and be used to fill the day tank at the beginning of every run. I plan to use a propane "fumigation" system as an adjunct, primarily to minimize carbon accumulation in the engine at light loads. Induction air will be at saturation with water vapor for the same reason(s).

That's as far as I can see things now. I am uneasy about the pH of the fuel I'd have by this process. I am uneasy about whatever it is that I haven't thought of...

Ideas????

A centrifuge would be the obvious answer I would think.  One that will separate fluids and solids of different weights, not one that simply removes solids, such as the Spinner etc.
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: aqmxv on November 12, 2007, 05:06:53 PM
I see a lot of mention here about filtering WMO, but nothing about checking PH. Are we checking PH?
How do we go about doing that?

There's a little bit of a misnomer here - you can't check pH in a nonpolar (oily) system.  what you generally do is put a known amount of the oil to be tested in a jar (Ideally a separatory funnel) along with a known amount of deionized water, then shake vigorously for a known time.  This allows the water to come in contact with any polar compounds in the oil.

Then you stand it upright and wait for it to separate out.  Draw off the water fraction and measure the pH of it.

For the test to actually mean anything you have to have known standards to work with.  I'm sure there's an ASTM standard somewhere...
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: rbodell on January 09, 2008, 11:49:58 AM
Hello I run 80/20 waste oil 80 watse 20 diesel but all of my oil is filtered trough tolet paper rolls they are cheap and you can burn the roll after about 50 gallons. all you need is a canister with a alltread and two plates on each end you must remove the cardboard first though. My 14 hp runs great and has about a couple hundred hours so far. Also where we live there are oil wells everywhere is seems to run ok on crude also.

what is an alltread?
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: rbodell on January 09, 2008, 01:01:27 PM
Hello I run 80/20 waste oil 80 watse 20 diesel but all of my oil is filtered trough tolet paper rolls they are cheap and you can burn the roll after about 50 gallons. all you need is a canister with a alltread and two plates on each end you must remove the cardboard first though. My 14 hp runs great and has about a couple hundred hours so far. Also where we live there are oil wells everywhere is seems to run ok on crude also.

what is an alltread?

It's not alltread but allthread .... commonly purchased in 3 ft length at your local building yard/ Home Depot.  It's a rod that is threaded over it's entire length or 'threaded all the way' or allthread.
I have no idea what the actual filter would look like and why he is removing the cardboard.
Jens

OK I understand the allthread now. I thought it might be a misspelling, but I wanted to be sure.

I imagine the cardboard center stops the oil from passing through the paper. Probably feeds the oil into the center and through the paper to the outside or the opposite directiom.

Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: moesoo on April 07, 2008, 11:38:00 PM
anyone tried mixing filtered waste motor oil with methanol (racing fuel)?  problems with combustion??  problems with complete mixing??, etc??  thanks moesoo.
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: dieseldave on April 15, 2008, 03:14:46 AM

 I dont think methanol will mix with UMO,as methanol is basically an alcohol.
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: dieseldave on April 15, 2008, 03:15:18 AM
 I dont think methanol will mix with UMO,as methanol is basically an alcohol.
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: dieseldave on April 15, 2008, 03:15:50 AM
 I dont think methanol will mix with UMO,as methanol is basically an alcohol.
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: moesoo on April 15, 2008, 04:17:49 AM
thanks diesel dave.  yes methanol is methyl alcohol or wood alcohol, but didn't know about it not mixing.  moesoo (jer)
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: VeggieDiesel on April 26, 2008, 05:57:39 AM
Getting back to rbodell's question about PH....

UMO usually contains some nasty acids and heavy metals.
(One of the main reasons to change crankcase oil at the correct interval.)
Are these acids something that could damage the injection system or cylinder bore over time ?
I'd like to run some WMO, but I'm a bit concerned about the acids.

Veggie
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: VeggieDiesel on April 27, 2008, 06:04:15 AM
Hi Jens,

I was not aware that a water wash could clean-up used motor oil. (and carry away the acids).
Sounds like a good idea. Don't have a wash system yet built yet.
Have you tried this ?

PS: where would this "acidic, heavy metal, wash water" go once the wash is done  ???
Sounds like a disposal problem to me.

Veggie
Title: Re: blended waste motor oil results
Post by: rbodell on April 27, 2008, 05:39:36 PM
Hi Jens,

I was not aware that a water wash could clean-up used motor oil. (and carry away the acids).
Sounds like a good idea. Don't have a wash system yet built yet.
Have you tried this ?

PS: where would this "acidic, heavy metal, wash water" go once the wash is done  ???
Sounds like a disposal problem to me.

Veggie

personally, I thought about that, but the solids get filtered out, the acid gets nutralized and what little water I use for testing gets thrown back in the tank and evaporated. The few solids I get go in a barrel with discolored oily water that settles in drums, sludge at the bottom of drums etc. I take that stuff to one of the local waste oil dumping places like oil change places or walmart.

large Amounts of clear water at the very bottom of barrels that is not discolored, I test for acid and nutralize if necessary and water one perticular section of grass with. That section of grass is just as green as the rest of the yard.

Strangely, few people even use those oil waste dumping facilities. At walmart you have to sign a sheet each time you dump something. Over a 6 month period, I was the only one to sign the sheet.