Lister Engine Forum
Alternative fuels => Straight Vegetable Oil => Topic started by: Stevels on June 18, 2006, 03:07:38 AM
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;D
I Just wanted to share the excitement with the forum. While far from finished with my project, I did have an important milestone today. I ran a large, 220v air conditioner from my Listeroid using straight Vegetable oil.
I am still working on the vibration dampening and exhaust system, as well as basically every other system too, but for the first time, actually ran this big AC with 100% straight VO. I ran for about an hour! I posted a little MPG of the proof of concept milestone.
AC running on SVO (http://www.steveadler.com/wvo_generator_project.htm#veggie01)
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Peace&Love :D, Darren
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Stevels,
Is there some reasoning as to why you have the coolant running with a Taco pump in the opposite direction to the rest of us? Or am I just seeing things wrong? Syphon works the other way round.
Sounds good and looks good. Congratulations, binnie.
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Stevels,
Another ques. I suppose the gen head can run in either direction but with the placement behind the engine, and it belted to the cranking flywheel instead of to the free flywheel, it must be a bitch to crank. Is there any reasoning as to why you put the genhead on this side instead of the other? I know Rocket boy set his up this way as he was cramped for space & used the wall for his muffler system. But just wondering. My 12/2 arrives on Wed. and I am also trying to figure things out. binnie
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“Is there some reasoning as to why you have the coolant running with a Taco pump in the opposite direction to the rest of us? Or am I just seeing things wrong? Syphon works the other way round.”
Hi Binnie,
Good question. This was a point of a bunch of consideration. After weighing several possible plans, I decided to actively NOT use thermosyphon on this design because of my plans on harnessing the waste heat from the engine to heat my house. I will fabricate a car radiator as a summer cooling system to replace the barrel completely, but in the winter, I will pipe the coolant into the house and feed it into a water to air heat exchanger. With this said, I need an active water pump system to push water through the radiator and heat exchanger.
Since I have not gone to the junkyard yet to get a radiator, I used one of my 55 gallon WVO filtering barrels as a temporary cooling system – just to test the proof of concept. I am breaking all the laws of thermosyphoning, but a Taco pump trumps thermosyphon laws any day! (notice the Taco's Hunter Green paint job?)
As for the placement of the gen head, I too was inspired by RocketBoy’s design, and plan on setting my system up against the back, corner garage wall – using the wall for my electric box and exhaust system. After looking at the placement of all the important components, setting up the system with this orientation made complete sense. Additionally, I find that there would be no difference between using the cranking flywheel vs. the free flywheel in terms of starting or running the motor. It just does not matter, yet having the components laid out like I have done makes the future placement of my cooling and exaust system meet my taste better, and, I think it just looks cool to see the gen head pully from the front of the system :)
I have a lot more development to do on this system before it is complete. I will keep it posted. Good luck with your 12/2. I bet you are psyched!
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Congratulations on the milestone! Never look back.
And yeah, it doesn't matter one whit which flywheel you belt it to, cranking effort will be the same.
Finest regards,
troy
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First, please let me add my congratulations on running the beast.
And second, a request -- will you please keep us posted about how you implement the waste heat co-gen setup? The Taco pump has a good reputation in solar recirculation systems, so you already have one critical component ready to go.
All the best
Russell Groves
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Congratulations on the milestone! Never look back.
And yeah, it doesn't matter one whit which flywheel you belt it to, cranking effort will be the same.
Finest regards,
troy
Cranking effort will be the same but one side puts the belt right under that dripping fuel tank. ;D
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Congratulations on the milestone! Never look back.
And yeah, it doesn't matter one whit which flywheel you belt it to, cranking effort will be the same.
Finest regards,
troy
Cranking effort will be the same but one side puts the belt right under that dripping fuel tank. ;D
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. That's the first thing I "fixed" on my FuKing as it all leaked like a sieve. By fixed I mean threw away the tank, the filter and the line and installed remote poly tank with squeze primer. Works slick.
Finest regards,
troy
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How did you know I have a leaky petcock? Is it that obvious ;)
Yeah, imagine how surprised I was to find fuel leaking and seeping from all orifices from such a fine, hand crafted machine.
I swear, if this thing ran any faster than 650 RPM, it would fly into a million pieces of Hunter Green shrapnel!
I will give the entire fuel assembly some loving, since I have decided to go 100% VO and NOT do a hybrid of diesel and VO, like I wisely did with my car. With my car, it was actually much more intuitive and easy to run a proper hybrid system, but wit h the Listeroid, it is a pile of suck, I think I can work around it.
One of the things that attracted me to the Listeroids in the first place is its simple, mechanical design. I hate to mess with it more than is needed so I do not disrespect the time proven simplicity. Remember the KISS principle! It seems that there are a number of confounding difficulties that make setting up the Listeroid as a hybrid, that is -- starting and stopping on diesel, very difficult. While it is certainly doable, I frankly don’t feel it is worth it, and will design around this to make a fully 100% VO system. To do this properly, and not score myself some long term engine damage, I raided the junk yard and have some tricks up my sleeve!
I read a great and comprehensive Web article published by a group of Cornel undergraduates who converted a Listeroid to Veg. I was most impressed, but I found their design was way too complicated, employing electronically controlled heat exchangers to try to regulated their tapping into the exhaust heat. I think I can use a much simpler, albeit crude design, but achieve the same goal, with less expense and sophisticated components.
I look forward to setting all the pieces up, painting them Hunter Green, and posting the finished product on the forum.
Question: Does anyone have what they think is the best rubber mounting design to isolate Mr. Lister from shaking my city neighbors? Also, I am about to work on an exhaust system, a la “RocketBoy”.
Does anyone have any advice to give regarding what they may have learned while doing their own set up? I need a super quiet system, as I am in the city. I have read about a bunch of designs, but would love for someone to give me some first have advice.
Thanks for all your feedback!!
Regards,
Stevels
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Does anyone have any advice to give regarding what they may have learned while doing their own set up? I need a super quiet system, as I am in the city. I have read about a bunch of designs, but would love for someone to give me some first have advice.
lots of work, but you _could_ build a smallish pool, and float the engine on a barge.
exhaust itself is easy to silence, bury it in a 45 gallon drum full of inch gravel
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I tried rubber mats, I tried wood between the frame and the cement. Then I unbolted the whole works, dragged it out of the way, chopped a hole in the basement floor and poured an isolated slab. The isolation was achieved with 1 1/2" white bead board, aka polystyrene insulation board. The slab was about 2 1/2 ft x 4 1/2 ft by 10 inches thick. That helped tremendously. Next time I'd make the slab bigger by double.
Guy's barrel full of rocks works a charm. I don't have that on this one, but will have it on the next. Saw some oil field engines like that.
The vibration bugaboo was a much tougher nut to crack.
Good luck and have fun!
troy
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The vibration bugaboo was a much tougher nut to crack.
Good luck and have fun!
troy
there's two sorts of vibration, the sort you need to fix if you want the motor to last, and the sort you need to dampen.
a well balanced lister(oid) won't vibrate much, especially if you do what the factory says and pour a ton of concrete for it.
a well balanced lister WILL "whump" (for want of a better word) when under load and a power stroke, and that whump can carry a few hundred yards in a hard surface, esp when you lay your head down on a bed sitting on the same surface.
I did once see a big 2lw gardner on a small barge in a small pond dug especially for it with some springs to keep it centralised, I do know cos I asked, the pond wasn't deep enough to sink the barge, just float it, and it absorbed ALL the whump and vibration, I can't remember the exact reason because it was years ago, but I have a real strong idea that it was something to do with worms that they did it that way
so anyway, perhaps some old truck air suspension units between your slab and the ground?
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Intersting ideas. Do you men happen to have any pictures of your isolation slabs or the barrel muffler? A picture is worth 975 words, maybe more!
SolarGuy, you have your engine in the basement? Is that working well for you? Is it legal? Does your wife mind?
GuyFawkes, If a lister is well ballanced, would it still need to be cemented down so well? I wonder where my Listeroid falls in the spectrum of balance. It seems like it shakes alot more than an engine should at 650 RPM, but condiering the tollrernces of all the components on this motor, it is amazing it runs at all!
I like the barge idea, but in the heart of the city, large bodies of water are hard to come by.
Thaks for all your feedback.
Anyone try using hockey pucks as mototr mounts?
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GuyFawkes, If a lister is well ballanced, would it still need to be cemented down so well? I wonder where my Listeroid falls in the spectrum of balance. It seems like it shakes alot more than an engine should at 650 RPM, but condiering the tollrernces of all the components on this motor, it is amazing it runs at all!
Lister said pour a ton of concrete, and that was a properly balanced engine.
ask anyone who runs one under load, they "whump" and that carries, vibration due to imbalance isn't something you want to be damping out so much as curing.
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what i am going to use to try and isolate vibration are dock bumpers.
the rubber elongated pyramidal shaped rubber things they bolt to the rear of trucks and trailers so that they have a cushion when backing into a loading dock.
they come on all sizes and shapes, and i would assume densities as well, are fairly inexpesive and easy to work with.
i figure on when my floor is poored having the contractor leave 4 pockets, so that i can move my get set in place, support it off the floor, so that the dock bumpers
sit down in the floor pockets, then grout them in place, let cure, and pull out the supports.
what i hope to have is a unit that is now sitting in nice fitting sockets, and nice isolation.
it is an experiment, i got the dock bumpers surplus for 2 bucks each, so i guess we shall see
bob g
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what i am going to use to try and isolate vibration are dock bumpers.
the rubber elongated pyramidal shaped rubber things they bolt to the rear of trucks and trailers so that they have a cushion when backing into a loading dock.
they come on all sizes and shapes, and i would assume densities as well, are fairly inexpesive and easy to work with.
i figure on when my floor is poored having the contractor leave 4 pockets, so that i can move my get set in place, support it off the floor, so that the dock bumpers
sit down in the floor pockets, then grout them in place, let cure, and pull out the supports.
what i hope to have is a unit that is now sitting in nice fitting sockets, and nice isolation.
it is an experiment, i got the dock bumpers surplus for 2 bucks each, so i guess we shall see
bob g
That will also insulate the whole unit electrically, so a nice hammered flat bit of 10mm microbore copper pipe is required...
those rubber belts can generate quite a bit of static too...
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"Intersting ideas. Do you men happen to have any pictures of your isolation slabs or the barrel muffler?"
Just checked my file, and no, I don't have any pictures showing the slab. I might grab a shot in the next week or so if I think of it. No promises as I'm silly busy at the moment.
"SolarGuy, you have your engine in the basement?"
Yup.
"Is that working well for you?"
Qualified yes. It is noisy. We are at risk for CO poisining. Don't do this without 1 or 2 good CO detectors. The exhaust noise is pretty easy to deal with, but the mechanical noise is still considerable. It wants its own soundproof room, which I hope to give it in the next house. I had to fit a crankcase EGR workaround for the smell. I never have to deal with cold issues, which is nice. I use mine for cogen, so it was important to minimize piping losses to the great outdoors, and this totally solves that problem.
"Is it legal?"
Probably not.
"Does your wife mind?"
Nope. She's a saint and tolerates all of my eccentricities amazingly well.
Finest regards,
troy
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"Is it legal?"
Probably not.
Finest regards,
troy
I am quite frankly surprised that house insulation isn`t illegal. How did the lobbyists for the energy companies miss that opportunity?!!!