Lister Engine Forum

Lister Engines => Original Lister Cs Engines => Topic started by: Ratman on February 13, 2010, 07:49:15 PM

Title: Finally joined the club
Post by: Ratman on February 13, 2010, 07:49:15 PM
Well! I'm a member of The 650 RPM Club ( at last)  8) 8)  I've bought this one    http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=5169.0

I collected it today with the help of a good mate (Needenginerunnin) and it's sat on my trailer down my yard. ;D  Big thanks for your help today mate.


Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Stan on February 14, 2010, 03:43:18 PM
Congratulations....Now it's time to get down and dirty and get into that sump with sleeves rolled up (and a hazmat suit).  ;D

What are you going to name her?  ::)
Stan
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Ratman on February 14, 2010, 07:23:46 PM
Congratulations....Now it's time to get down and dirty and get into that sump with sleeves rolled up (and a hazmat suit).† ;D

What are you going to name her?† ::)
Stan

Hello Stan.
I've already started stripping it with the help of my mate (Needenginerunnin) and to be honest, when I lifted the valve cover off I nearly gave up, it was so rusty in there even the valve springs had corroded away, the head nuts were about half the size they should be, the injector body is in a right mess and may have to be replaced, both valves are seized in the guides. We managed to get all the head nuts of with Stilsons and Molegrips, the head came off quite easily.
We managed to get the injector out but had to hacksaw through the bolts, the remaining studs are yet to be removed. I've left the valves and guides soaking in PlusGas and will try in about a week or so to remove them.
The piston is seized in the bore but it all looks good, again I've left it to soak in PlusGas and will try to free it in a week or so.
Had a look in the crankcase and it looks good in there.
The engine is a he and I'm calling him Norman in memory of my dear old Dad.
I'll keep you all posted with the progress.

Rob

Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Stevie D on February 14, 2010, 10:13:26 PM
Good luck with the new project - I've just started to dismantle one in a similar state ;D

Steve
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Stan on February 15, 2010, 05:17:38 AM
Rob and Steve.....As you may have heard, my main interest in this "hobby" is saving these grand old girls from the scrap man.  Waaaaay too many of them have already shared that most ignominious state.

These engines illustrate one of the worst attributes of these newer generations of people all around the world that think they "win" by buying cheap junk at a "bargain" price and then find out they have to turn around in a couple of years and throw the junk away and buy some new junk.

These engines were made to last literally a lifetime if properly maintained and repaired.  Try that with a cheap modern high speed generator system.  A buddy of mine has gone through 3 of them in 5 years just as backup power for his apiary business.  If he'd bought a quality engine and gen unit for twice the price of one of the cheap units, he would be way ahead of the game in price, not to mention peace of mind.

The other attribute we have taught a whole new generation is that they can have anything they want, right now, even if they can't afford to pay for it.  Millions of people are paying off one credit card with another, and no matter how you cut it, that adds up to a personal Ponzi scheme.  No economy can survive like that for long.

Sorry about the rant, congratulations again on saving two more of these grand old girls from a fate worse than death.  You are making not only a better power unit, but a better world.
Stan
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: needenginerunnin on February 15, 2010, 10:41:20 AM
I'LL second that stan, couldn't agree more.
i wouldnt part with mine for the world, wouldnt say no to another one mine looks lonely by its self!
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Stan on February 15, 2010, 03:37:28 PM
Can't argue with that!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Stan
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Ratman on February 15, 2010, 08:11:40 PM
Hereís an update for you all.
Today I managed to get the valve caps and collets off, freed the rack on the pump and removed the pump for testing, freed the adjuster bolt on the injector, but I still recon the injector will be scrap when I take it for testing with the pump. Removed the inlet and exhaust manifolds.
My engine WILL live again no matter what. Iím not sure how you explain it but itís amazing the feeling you develop for a piece of cast iron. :-*
Iíll be back with more updates as they happen fellow 650íers.

Rob
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: needenginerunnin on February 15, 2010, 10:09:34 PM
evening all

and hello steve, i see your new to the forum.
how are you getting on with the rebuild of your engine?
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Ratman on February 15, 2010, 10:21:28 PM
evening all

and hello steve, i see your new to the forum.
how are you getting on with the rebuild of your engine?


Ooopppss! :-[ sorry stevie D, forgot to say welcome.......................Welcome stevie D
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Ratman on February 16, 2010, 07:46:34 PM
I have had a major set back today, it took me about an hour to get the big end cap off, it was made all the more difficult as the crank is about halfway on the up stroke and damn near impossible to get to the rear most nut.
I did manage to get the cap off but was devastated at the amount of corrosion on the big end journal, and to add insult to injury, the main bearings are also seized.
The valve timing cogs and the underside of the piston are also extensively corroded.
Not sure where Iím going from here, bit of a bugger really. :( :(
Rob
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: mike90045 on February 16, 2010, 07:52:35 PM
I also hear water is a good solvent for rust (time limited appication)
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: contaucreek on February 16, 2010, 10:41:41 PM
Ratman, maybe someone on here can post the Gas Engine Magazine article of the big Stickney hit and miss engine that spent a few decades under a river. It was on a riverbank and fell in one day and someone had the foresight to tie a steel cable to it and lots of years later they dug it out. It was quite a mess....beyond anything most seasoned engine restorers would attempt to resurect.You know how this story is going to end. The engine runs and is shown at shows in the U.S.

Time is on your side. You have the castings (thats the biggy) So pour a drink, pull a chair up to Norman in the shop and just enjoy having it for a little while, theres no race.
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: rcavictim on February 17, 2010, 12:53:32 AM
I also hear water is a good solvent for rust (time limited appication)

Coca Cola!
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: lowspeedlife on February 17, 2010, 01:33:50 AM
automatic transmission fluid mixed 50/50 with acetone.
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Stan on February 17, 2010, 02:59:15 AM
Ratman, maybe someone on here can post the Gas Engine Magazine article of the big Stickney hit and miss engine that spent a few decades under a river. It was on a riverbank and fell in one day and someone had the foresight to tie a steel cable to it and lots of years later they dug it out. It was quite a mess....beyond anything most seasoned engine restorers would attempt to resurect.You know how this story is going to end. The engine runs and is shown at shows in the U.S.

Time is on your side. You have the castings (thats the biggy) So pour a drink, pull a chair up to Norman in the shop and just enjoy having it for a little while, theres no race.

I read about that!  It was deeply buried in the mud right beside a river.  Just a big hunk o'rust!
Stan
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Ratman on February 17, 2010, 10:37:44 AM
Thanks everyone for your ideas and support. I can assure you I have not given up, and as you say contaucreek, time is on my side.
One way or another.......Norman will run ;D

Rob 
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: contaucreek on February 17, 2010, 11:24:58 AM
 RCA, should that not read RUM and Coke ??  ;D Just wondering !   

P.S. I should have the 16 at Cookstown this year, hopefully see you there !
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Stevie D on February 17, 2010, 08:34:24 PM
evening all

and hello steve, i see your new to the forum.
how are you getting on with the rebuild of your engine?


Ooopppss! :-[ sorry stevie D, forgot to say welcome.......................Welcome stevie D

Cheers Folks :)

Nothing free'd up yet after a week - a young family keep my out of the garage, so not too much done yet, long term project here too, at least I can start it's cousin...


Sorry to highjack your thread Rob

Steve
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Ratman on February 17, 2010, 08:51:32 PM
You've not hyjacked the thread at all Steve, keep it coming. More the better eh!!


If I get this right, here's a photo of what faced us upon removing the valve cover.

(http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/12/04/82/42/tyres_10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=39&u=12048242)

And this what it looked like after removing all the gunge.

(http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/12/04/82/42/tyres_11.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=40&u=12048242)
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: contaucreek on February 17, 2010, 10:44:08 PM
I don't see anything to be afraid of. Just going to take some doing  :P
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Stan on February 18, 2010, 03:11:25 AM
Ah ha!  Is that red paint I see on the back of what looks like a radiator pulley?
Stan
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Ratman on February 18, 2010, 11:54:00 AM
Ah ha!† Is that red paint I see on the back of what looks like a radiator pulley?
Stan

It is red paint on the fan pulley Stan, only one fan blade remains and the radiator is missing from the engine.

Rob
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Stan on February 18, 2010, 03:01:00 PM
Yup...Penelope had and now has red paint on her fan and pulley, sort of the Lister version of lipstick I guess  :-[
Stan
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Stevie D on February 28, 2010, 10:36:44 PM
Ratman - mine isn't much different - both engines were missing the valve covers :o Got some off ebay though - indian copies but fine for what I want.

;D Had a good day today - 3 -4 hours to myself, inspired by a telephone conversation with a fellow cs owner on the other end / side of the country yesterday & needing my trailer emptied lol...

Got the siezed engines cylinder bore off with a few knocks with a small sledge hammer, and a crow bar.  Rings a mess, and bottom end was siezed.  Managed to get all the sludge & water out of the sump. A few hours with some penetrating oil & parifin some rocking back & forth with a big bit of timber as a lever and things started to loosen  ;D

Now spins over nice, even the cam followers ar lifting and falling by themselves.  Bit of a tight spot on the big end so now that I can get to the castle nuts I'll pull that and have a look.  The bore polished up nice too, just to clean up the piiiston and see what the rings are like.

Covers are off the gib keys and the oil in place there, I'll oil them every night for the next week or two and see if they will shift to let me strip the main bearings.

I got the head off the 'good' engine too, nice and clean, no broken rings, but evididence of the valves striking the top of the piston, didn't check what the tappets were like before I started.  I'll get the oil drained off and check out the sump etc later in the week.

Need a replacement som flywheel / pulley as one has a crack in it  :-[.  Need a replacement injector assy as well, that wa missing, presumably how all the water got into the siezed engine in the first place  ::)

At least I can get them lifted off the trailer now.

I'll probably end up with both engines running again eventually.

Steve


Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Ratman on March 01, 2010, 08:08:37 PM
Just an update on my situation, Norman is shelved for the time being, but I will have him running if God leaves me on the planet long enough. I have sourced a supply of genuine used parts and eventually a rebuild will take place.
Watch this space.
Good luck with yours Stevie D 8) 8)........Where are you located?? PM me if you prefer.

Rob
Title: Re: Finally joined the club
Post by: Stevie D on March 02, 2010, 02:15:10 PM
Good luck with yours Stevie D 8) 8)........Where are you located?? PM me if you prefer.

Rob

I'm accross the little pond on the Emerald Isle - Spend most of my time near bealfast on the east coast and the remainder in the Irish midlands at our off grid 30 acre smallholding - hence the cs!

Steve  ;)