Lister Engine Forum
Alternative fuels => Waste Vegetable Oil => Topic started by: NoSpark on February 01, 2009, 07:19:07 PM
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Well, my generator project has been pretty much on hold for a month, with temperatures as low as -30°F / -34°C in the last few weeks it became unbearable to work in my shop and too expensive to heat. I putter on it when its warm enough or when I don't mind running the oil fired space heater for hours. In the basement I'm trying to put together my electrical panel that will go on the wall behind my generator and I'm trying to decided on injector line heaters for running WVO. I'll have to go with 120v/240v rope heaters for now since I don't have a 12v system in place yet. I've checked out McMaster's and other places but I'm unsure what to get. My local hardware store has the stuff to melt ice on the roof, would this get hot enough if it was in short lengths? McMaster's has some really small heating pads that could be placed on the injector without heating the whole line to +200°. I've already run some wvo in the engine blended with diesel or rug but with these temps I think I need some heaters. Thanks.
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Jens,
Can you provide a bit more information on the Omega units.?
Model number, contact information, etc....
I would like to get some of those line heaters also.
Thanks kindly,
Veggie
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Maybe these guys? http://www.omega.co.uk/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=HTC&Nav=heam02
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Found it !
Here's the Omega Canada website....
http://www.omega.ca/shop/pptsc.asp?ref=HTC
Jens, how did you get yours for $15 ?
Must have charmed the female customer service person ? ;)
Cheers,
Veggie
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Jens,
I almost bought that heat rope after reading about it on an earlier post of yours. One question, how do you control the temp? Or do you? Or do we even need to? I want to just wrap it around the injector line for when running WMO. Thanks.
Marcus
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Thanks very much for sharing the test results Jens.
I think the heat rope would be very useful for us Changfa owners.
On my S195, the steel injector line running from the pump to the head is approx. 14" long and does not reside close enough to the head for good heat conduction.
I think the heat rope may be a good way to ensure the WVO is at 180f as it enters the injector.
I'll post my results once the system is hookedup and running.
Cheers,
Veggie
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thanks, Jens. sounds like you don't need the dimmer in the circuit.
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Jens - are you running that heater rope covered up, or open like it is in the pictures on the website/brochures?
Looking at the pictures, it strikes me that about 75% of the heat output is going to radiate to the surrounding air, but my guess is the instructions disallow you to cover them up to improve efficiency.... unfortunately, the "technical details" link on the UK website turned out to be just the brochure, with no extra info than the website.
Cheers!
Ade.
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100 watts is just about perfect on my 6/1. I leave it on all the time I'm running WVO. I see 180-210°F on the injector nut with a 2000 watt load on the engine. I use Mcmaster #3641k23 heat rope on the HP line wrapped in flexible
fiberglass silicone tape. I've heard several opinions on how much the injector heats the fuel and don't know the answer. The volume of fuel it contains compared with consumption will tell us how long the fuel is in there.
I have 50 watts on the WVO filter and a 75 watt heating pad under the 13 gallon WVO fuel tank. I need to turn the heating pad on at least 12 hrs ahead of time in cold weather.
My head stays clean for at least 300 hrs and even then it's pretty clean except for some build up on the intake valve which gets to close to the piston for me to be comfortable with. I mix 10% rug into my WVO.
I'm just about to tick over 2000 hrs on the engine, 3 megawatts on the kill-a-watt and thousands of gallons of cogen hot water delivered to the house.
Thanks, Geno
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100 watts is just about perfect on my 6/1. I leave it on all the time I'm running WVO. I see 180-210°F on the injector nut with a 2000 watt load on the engine. I use Mcmaster #3641k23 heat rope on the HP line wrapped in flexible fiberglass tape.
Hello Geno
In the above quote you mention "flexible fiberglass tape" so my question is what is that stuff meant for and where can I buy it? ???
Thanks Billswan
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100 watts is just about perfect on my 6/1. I leave it on all the time I'm running WVO. I see 180-210°F on the injector nut with a 2000 watt load on the engine. I use Mcmaster #3641k23 heat rope on the HP line wrapped in flexible fiberglass tape.
Hello Geno
In the above quote you mention "flexible fiberglass tape" so my question is what is that stuff meant for and where can I buy it? ???
Thanks Billswan
I meant to say silicone tape. My bad. I got mine off ebay but it's something like Mcmaster # 7643a79
Thanks, Geno
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"The instructions specifically state not to cross the rope or cover it up"
Yeah, that figures... Thanks for the info - come summer (not a good time to be testing cold-start abilities, I suppose... ::)), I'll have a play with some line heater rope & veg oil, see what the outcome is...
Cheers!
Ade.
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My testing of the heat rope and what it does to temps shows similar results. The fuel gets plenty hot in the hp line. Logic does tell me the injector heats the fuel to its temp but that depends how long the fuel is in there. Ken Boak (yahoo groups, listercsog) made a post a good while back stating the fuel passes through the injector to fast to pick up any real heat. I don’t know the answer. Many of the veggie car guys swear by line heaters and for a 100 watts load I’ll keep mine on.
Side note: I use about the same wattage per cylinder on my 85 Benz 300d. At 65 mph/29 mpg the fuel consumption per cylinder is about the same as the roid. It also has an IDI chamber and the old style Bosch IP and injectors. The nozzles look almost identical but are not. The MB nozzles have a pre spray, which I would love in the roid. I only have 4k miles on WVO but it runs great. I did a lot of work on it this winter and hope to put a lot more miles on it this summer.
Thanks, Geno
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One thermodynamic principle of note here is that....
Heat is added to the WVO due to the substantial pressure increase in the injector line(s).
However, a cooling effect occurs during the rapid pressure drop when the oil is sprayed from the injector nozzle.
Heat added via conduction (eg: heat rope or close proximity to the engine block) allows for WVO temperatures over-and-above the norm.
Hence, heat ropes should make a considerable positive difference.
Cheers,
Veggie
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Heat is added to the WVO due to the substantial pressure increase in the injector line(s).
Please quantify and explain.
RAB
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Sounds like we could be using WVO as refrigerants instead of those awful ozone depleting ones. Interesting! ::)
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RAB,
In very general terms...
Pressurize oil to x thousand PSI, the oil gets hot. (Eg: need for coolers on hydraulic systems)
Release the pressure rapidly and the medium releases the heat energy. (Eg: Cooling of a tire valve when air is released)
Veggie
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Cooling of a tire valve when air is released
Oh! Lets not mix gases with liquids. Gases are easily compressible. Liquids are not.
Not yet quantified. Go on, put a figure to it. Work done is related to distance force is moved. Methinks there is not a lot of distance involved here somehow....the amount that one could compress a liquid at 1- 2000psi. IF there was, it would be virtually adiabatic, would it not?
RAB
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RAB
Makes sense,
I did some checking into hydraulic system heat buildup.
Seems that heat in a hydraulic system is caused by an accumulation of the inefficiencies in the system rather than the compression of the fluid.
Heat added through compression is present but to small to be relevant.
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NoSpark,
Sounds like we could be using WVO as refrigerants instead of those awful ozone depleting ones
That might depend on the operating temperature, the latent heat of avaporation, the specific heat and the operatng pressure. So that one looks as though it has flown out of the window too. :)
At one company I worked for we used to refer to the 'Refigerated Steam Company' handbook. It was areally useful read for some things. Sadly, not heating water by compression, though. A much better way is to put some in a vacuum flask and invert it a few times. That works. ::)
Regards, RAB
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RAB
Sorry you didn't detect the sarcasm.
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NoSpark,
I did. Post was to keep Veggie busy inverting a vacuum flask..... Now should it be less than, or more than, half full? The note? probably B flat minor or some such - I'm not much of a musician
Regards, RAB
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I don't know RAB, Veggie may have something. If you can heat water in a hydrosonic pump then maybe the pulses from the injector pump could heat the fuel. ::)
No wonder the vacuum flask thing didn't work, well that's an hour of my life I'll never get back. Thanks a lot.
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Geno,
What happened to your website!! ???
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I finally got my own domain and didn't change my profile to reflect it.
Now fixed, thanks. There are probably many old links I've put out in the www which are now broken. The ones that pointed to the now deleted sub domain will be good though.
Geno