Lister Engine Forum

Alternative fuels => Other Fuels => Topic started by: SteveU. on September 25, 2008, 10:36:56 PM

Title: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on September 25, 2008, 10:36:56 PM
OK boys and girls, here it is: an affordable motor grade wood gasifer kit for engines 5-20 HP.

www.allpowerlabs.org/gasification/gek/index.html

It appears to be using known, workable design features. It has almost all of the features I was going to incorperate in my first prototype unit this winter.
I really like the fact that the designer is NOT trying to offer this as a turn key system, but as a modular basic starting point LEGO kit. Results will vary with the input that you put into it. Now that sounds like a realistic Lister/iod attitude.

Comments???

SteveU. 
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on September 26, 2008, 04:05:14 AM
Thanks Jens. Spelling correction make.

I finally took the time to look over the whole web site myself.
The designers name is Jim Mason. His efforts to make a Lister 6/1 run off of a gasifier was reported  back in June 2008.

Now to see if he has any staying power. Both Doug Williams and DR Thomas Reed have been beating their heads against lack of commercial support for motor gasification for over thirty years now.

JUNE 2009 Edit: Turns out the good results reported at the Californian Makers Faires in both 2008 and now 2009 was on dried walnut shells only. Nut shells are a premium almost prefect biomass to gasifiy. Real world results, reported by real people using their own woods block chunked cut have been poor. This machine has proven in the field to be very fuel moister sensitive, cold weather sensitive, and even sensitive to the species of wood used. You DO have to be a very superior operator with constant hands on turnig, shaking, poking to get any motor grade useable gases outputs. It has now been major redesign for the third time in less than a year to "improve" it.
 It is what it is - a LEGO style  experimenters/teaching toy.
  Not a serious working tool.

SteveU.   
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: Tom on September 26, 2008, 06:21:06 PM
Man there are a lot of Thomas Reeds out there. I'm one too. One time I met another one in my dentists office, we both happened to be there for the same appointment. I'm not a DR though.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on September 27, 2008, 08:11:16 PM

My state Washington adopted the most strict wood burning regulations of any in 1994. Since then it has been illegal to sell, install or even resell any wood stove that does not have an expensive US EPA metal certification plate attached. Consequences: new stove prices have doubled and tripled. And old burnt out obsolete stoves are being patched up and kept in service far too long to be safe.And NO nasty, smoky outdoor furnaces allowed.
This has taught me that the current nonasbestos funace/stove cement in still good for 600-1200 hours at 1200-1800 F.( 700-1000 C.), the temperatures needed for complete cracking and oxidization of the wood tars for clean burning. At these temperatures the cast iron plates carbonize, hyrogen enbittle, warp, sag and fall apart. The pretty colored porcelain enameled coatings melt ,bubble and turn dull. This is the temperature its proven to take to burn wood clean without creasotes and tar buildups. Surprizing to me the tempered glasses and stainless steel seconary air tube assemlies in the new stoves hold up undamaged.
I will definatly be coating the hearth zone surfaces with furnace cement on any gasifier I'm involed with.

I am currently doing wood fuel production tests. How long does it take to produce 10gallons (40 liters) of wood chunks/blocks that using both Doug Williams' www.Fluidynenz.250x.com and the numbers on the www.allpowerlabs.org/gasifacation/gek site it would take to run my Listeriod for 8-10 hours? Very surprising to me that simply chain sawing up and hatchet chunking scrap wooded pallets is faster and produces better filter quality sawndust than either circular mill cutting strips or even limb chunking with a hand loper.

Thanks
SteveU.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: MacGyver on September 28, 2008, 01:26:12 AM
The good news is of course that old pallets are readily available.
One thing that I had been thinking of in the past is to construct a tow-able chipper that is sized to take pallets and reduce it to a more easily transportable chipped pile of wood. That way you can drive all over town and pick up pallets and feed the resulting chips straight into your fireplace or gasifier.

One of the big problems with pallets is...  NAILS!

Once upon a time I had access to an endless supply of pallets, and I built a wood stove (I called it a pallet stove) and heated my house for 2 years with pallets. They burn great but the nails are a PITA.
I dunno how well your chipper will like the nails, or what happens to chopped up nails in the gasifier?  Maybe it's no problem, but every pallet probably has 50 nails in it. I suppose after chipping they could be filtered out of the chips with a big magnet or something, but I'll bet your chipper still hates them.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on September 29, 2008, 01:25:41 AM
As you wish (almost).
The Doug Williams recommended wood chipper for gasifier feed stock is a Finnish LAIMET. Distributed in North America by Scandia Equipment Fabricating Ltd. Fenwick, Ontario.
Quoted from: www.laimet.com
"The LAIMET produces splinter free and even one-size chips.""The operation is based on a cylindical screw blade, which also functions as a feed unit making a separate manual feed unnecessary. The screw blade is sharpened without removing the blade, using a separate (standard equipment) sharpening unit."
I've seen the chips; no fines at all. Looked like, sized like French cut geen beans. The literature says some models can be adjused to five different chip sizes.
No responsible operator is going to allow you to run pallet nails (half are hardened ring or spiral shanked) through his expensive machine.
I'll have to stick with a 40 dollar chain and a 5 dollar hatchet for a long time. It takes me less than 45 minutes to work up 10gallons (40 liters) of pallet wood chunks this way. I'll get faster!!! Promise!!

SteveU.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: sid on September 29, 2008, 02:15:41 AM
maybe a hammer mill? they beat the item apart/ used in glass crushing,feed grinding...etc/sid
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on September 29, 2008, 09:55:50 PM
Hey guys, the key phrase here is,"wood chips suitable for use in a gasifer". For now that means properly dried size cut wooden chunks, or size sorted, screened and dried wooden chips.
Just try "shoveling" most any type of machine processed chips or saw dust into a wood stove, fireplace, campfire and what you'll get is lots of smoke and a choked out fire.
In the new mills they use a dribble feed into a very hot forced air combustor to get clean burning just like the current pellet stoves. The other way is like the old smoldering , smoky wigwams that choked every valley in the Pacific Coasts up through the 70's. Wanna go back to the good? 'ol days? Not me.
If you look at the fuel sizing/texturing requirements for gasifiers independently discovered on these sites you will see why I'm starting my project with fuel processing:

http://www.inetlink.ca/a31ford/cgcmb/      The Canadian Gregg Mannings site with reference to his change in fuel feedstock back to his original type.

www.gocpc.com        The Community Power Corp. in Denver USA web site with reference to their "Sucsessful Applications" section. They will not even consider you to buy one of their turn key systems unless you can prove you can make wood chunks/blocks or an approved(theirs) subsitute.

www.gasificationaustralia.com        They show what fueling chunks their turn key system (also a too large for a small CS Lister/iod) is designed to work on. They show a nice picture of why you do NOT want to try and  feed nails through a gasifier. They did try, and failed.  OOps. The pictures are on the next web site within "Tasman Class Gasifier"

www.Fluidynenz.250x.com         New Zealanders Doug Williams site it scattered through out with pictures of proper fuel processing. And he flat out states their designs will ONLY operate properly on correctly sized wooded chunks/blocks. Do note he IS using the bark also.

Honestly guys it ain't that tough sawing and chopping up wooden chunks. Just watch the fingers!!

SteveU.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: jtodd on September 30, 2008, 08:18:30 AM
Update,
I've Emailed a request for a corrected price quote on a Level III unwelded gasifer kit with the sheet metal to be in a weldable stainless steel.
My state Washington adopted the most strict wood burning regulations of any in 1994. Since then it has been illegal to sell, install or even resell any wood stove that does not have an expensive US EPA metal certification plate attached. Consequences: new stove prices have doubled and tripled. And old burnt out obsolete stoves are being patched up and kept in service far too long to be safe.And NO nasty, smoky outdoor furnaces allowed.
This has taught me that the current nonasbestos funace/stove cement in still good for 600-1200 hours at 1200-1800 F.( 700-1000 C.), the temperatures needed for complete cracking and oxidization of the wood tars for clean burning. At these temperatures the cast iron plates carbonize, hyrogen enbittle, warp, sag and fall apart. The pretty colored porcelain enameled coatings melt ,bubble and turn dull. This is the temperature its proven to take to burn wood clean without creasotes and tar buildups. Surprizing to me the tempered glasses and stainless steel seconary air tube assemlies in the new stoves hold up undamaged.
I will definatly be coating the hearth zone surfaces with furnace cement on any gasifier I'm involed with.

I am currently doing wood fuel production tests. How long does it take to produce 10gallons (40 liters) of wood chunks/blocks that using both Doug Williams' www.Fluidynenz.250x.com and the numbers on the www.allpowerlabs.org/gasifacation/gek site it would take to run my Listeriod for 8-10 hours? Very surprising to me that simply chain sawing up and hatchet chunking scrap wooded pallets is faster and produces better filter quality sawndust than either circular mill cutting strips or even limb chunking with a hand loper.

I an hoping some of you guys will look over and critique this gasifirer design before I start the actual welding in November.

Thanks
SteveU.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

Jim Mason is indeed "the real thing" when it comes to putting his money where his mouth is.  He's interested in building a community around the gasifier project, and there are quite a few threads involving his experiments here:

http://listserv.repp.org/pipermail/gasification_listserv.repp.org/

There are some even better comments Jim has put on the list that aren't reflected in the website - he's getting excellent results (or so it seems) from pre-heating the input air with more windings around the chamber - no tar or nasty stuff in the gas.  Very, very interesting work.  I don't know how well a Lister or other diesel would run on wood gas in the long term, meaning hundreds of hours.  I'm very interested in getting one of these kits from Jim, but I've got so little time these days that I can't justify the expense for a bunch of metal that would sit in my garage and rust before I had a chance to assemble it.  Please, please - if you get one, report your experiences (with photos!) back to the forum here.

As far as certifications for wood stoves, here are two links including the actual EPA ruling:

http://chimneysweeponline.com/hoepareg.htm
http://www.epa.gov/Compliance/resources/policies/monitoring/caa/woodstoverule.pdf

It seems after some basic reading that wood gasifiers are in limbo as far as emissions rules go.  They are not "wood heaters", since wood heaters are designed to heat a space.  They're not furnaces, boilers, cookstoves, or fireplaces according to the definitions.  In fact, there's no definition into which wood gasifiers would seem to fit, either in the included or excluded lists of this ruleset.  Don't know where this leaves things.

I came up with some ideas sitting here about a wood pulverizer for pallets and undergrowth.  More projects I'll never get time to do.  ;-)  Maybe contact your local Asplundh divison or municipal arborist and see where they dump their chips?  I'm betting that those chips are in good enough condition for use, and are probably free for the taking without the hassle of nails or pulverizing.

JT

Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on October 12, 2008, 08:25:46 PM
Hi All,
Thanks to jtodd for the recommended forum at:
http://listserv.repp.org/pipermail/gasifacation_listserv.repp.org
I did join. And now on the last three issues there has been much discussion of machine prossessing of woody debris for use in a gasifier.
Currently a German? corospondant named Rolf has submmited the simplest DYI made design based on an old German? JENSON machine. See his machine at:
http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/uhlejensenchopper
This could be make by most any 'ol farmer out on old balerflywheel, scrap equipment parts with just a stick welder, a grinder and a drill. The proceesed wood  chunks look real good.
Another corospondent Ronald shows the current JENSON machine site as:
http://www.holzhackmaschinen.com/
Click on the British flag to get text in English.

Later
SteveU.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: mbryner on October 18, 2008, 03:37:12 AM
I actually bought a GEK from Jim Mason a few months ago in hopes of using it to power my 6/1.   We've had quite strict burn restrictions here in Southern Oregon for the summer, so I didn't dare put it together yet.   Any puff of smoke and I would have had the fire dept on my land quickly.   Burn restrictions just ended, so I'm planning on putting it together in the next few weeks.   The Listeroid doesn't have a radiator on it yet anyway, and I'm just starting to build a generator barn, so the gasifier was/is on the back burner.   I'll post pics when I get it working.   If any of you get a 'oid reliably running on wood gas, please post!!!  :) 

Marcus
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on October 18, 2008, 02:44:24 PM
Hello Marcus,

It will be an interesting comparison  gasifing on your 6/1 versus my 12/1. The engines must suck enough flow thru the gasifier for it to burn hot enough to gasify cleanly.
I think this has been one of the major problems with most do-it-your-self attemts: too large a gasifier for the engine air flow. My research says for an Inbert style it must have no larger than a 1 1/2-2" reduction tube.

June 2009 Edit: results from many people trying to go this small have failed due to fuel/charcoal blockages. S.U.

And it must have a three stage post reactor cleaning/cooling-parcipitation/filtering process.

Whats your fuel source going to be? Pine? Oak? Or fir?  I only have Douglas fir. I'll start out chunking mine and work down in size from there from there.

And forum info before I lose it again. Here are some Listeriod engine Cubic Feet per Minute air intake requirements derived from Omega: 6/1 650rpm 1455cc(87.4cid)= 41CFM   //  8/1 850rpm 1455cc(87.4cid)= 54CFM  //  10/1 1000rpm 1621cc(97.4cid)= 70CFM.
Nothing was listed for the larger engines like my 12/1, but it would make sense for mine to be twice the 6/1 41CFM at full power.

Hope you are going to be posting pictures soon.
SteveU. 
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: MeanListerGreen on October 19, 2008, 03:16:33 AM
I read an article about a guy in California driving around in an old Chevy pick up powered by walnut shells via a gassifier.  I seem to remember reading some where else where they were using corn cobs, but I can't remeber much of the details on that one.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on October 19, 2008, 08:07:28 PM
Hi MLG,

You would be talking about "Chicken Johns" rig. Yes nut shells are an excellant motor grade gasifier fuel.
 In many parts of the world wood is scarce and other biomass fuel are cheap and availabe. However only a few can currently be gasified into a moter grade fuel. The "Holy Grail" of most todays gasification researchers is into the perfect gasifier that can convert any dried biomass into a motor grade fuel. My hats off, but I'm more of a " . . . good enough Pig" person. What can I do today. I do have wood. I heat with wood. I supply wood to others for heat also. My interest is now how to turn my wood into 3kw of useable electricity. This is actually much harder doing on a small scale than a large. Look at a wildfire or structural fire versus a small campfire. One is self feeding,impossible to control and hard to put out. The other takes constant fiddling to burn well and keep going.    Hey, sounds like some Lister/iods!

The very best web site I've found about current practical vehicle wood gasification is:
http://www.woodgas.net/
Jonathan Spreadbough is a well read, smart, pragmatic man. He the first one I've come across to reprogram a vehicle fuel injection computor to optimize for wood gas fuel. I've done hundreds of vehicle eeprom reprograms. Only lost two. Expensive. He's got (Yiddish word for "balls" I can never remember). He appears to be a good welder and likes stainless steel too!
 His current project is gasifing an old ex-pump 300cid stationary A.C. diesel engine. Now I'm starting to get interested.
His site resource section has free downloadable copies of some hard to get research papers that should be read before you ever touch a welder, a chipper and attempt to make woodgas.

All my own opinions. Later.
SteveU.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: mbryner on October 20, 2008, 04:57:07 AM
Hi SteveU and all,

I may be ahead of you in getting the parts, but it sounds like you are a little more active w/ the gasifier project than I am currently.   On the other hand, you got the unwelded version of the GEK, right?   Mine's all welded up and I just have to bolt it together. :)

With the GEK, I should have over 2x what I need in woodgas volume-wise to power the 6/1.   Guess I'll have to burn it off somehow.  Waterheater?   Don't know of any way to store it.   Anyone else see "problems" w/ trying to pump a flammable gas through an air compressor to store it?   :o   And I'll probably have to keep the electric fan on to keep it hot enough for clean gasification, since the 6/1 probably won't have enough vacuum.  The 12/1 should work great w/ the GEK without mods, though.  Jim Mason was running a 6/1 w/ it for the Maker's Faire if memory serves.

The hard part (for me) will be getting the mix right (woodgas and diesel).   Not quite sure how to put that together.   Do you have that worked out yet?  How do you compensate for more/less load?  Constant gas flow in the air-intake and variable flow w/ diesel through the fuel rack?

I'm still working out what to burn in the GEK.   I'm new to the 'roid business (I'm a doctor, not a mechanic), but I was a physics major in college and like working outside and mechanical things.   I've done minor work on my cars and helped w/ an engine rebuilt on a Case 580 backhoe engine rebuild.  But I've taken apart the 'roid a few times so far and it was easy.   I lurk on this forum all the time and appreciate all the help!   We're designing our own off-grid home, gravity feed water, hydro and PV power, etc.  This summer I built a road, house pad, barn pad, water system w/ 10k gal water storage.  (Not all alone! Some contractor work involved.)   Currently building a generator shed/barn.   Then I can work more on the listeroid and GEK.  That said, to answer your question:  we have a tractor w/ 6" PTO chipper.  I was going to chip Doug Fir, Manzanita, and Vine Maple (really whatever we happen to be clearing), and save the big chunks for the GEK.

The photos will be forthcoming, but not until it gets to wet to work outside...

Marcus
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: mobile_bob on October 20, 2008, 07:06:46 AM
if you can provide a flammable gas from your gasifier and get it into the intake stream
the diesel injection system and listeroid governor will do the rest up to a point.

as you start admitting another gaseous fuel you should see the fuel rack moving toward the
idle position while the engine is pulling a load, more gas will cause the engine to try and speed up
and the governor will taper back the diesel injected to control the rpm.

some engines can handle a fair percentage of gas before missfiring occurs, there needs to be some pilot fuel
injected to initiate the start of combustion.

what that percentage is on a particular engine, under a specific load, and with a specific quality of gas
will determine what the offset will be.

i am thinking that a IDI listeriod might reach as high a 70-80% woodgas before it starts to missfire, maybe a bit
more, maybe a bit less.

don't expect to get the same power on woodgas, woodgas does not have the same btu rating of diesel and
it displaces oxygen in the intake air, and

to optimise for woodgas will require adjustment of the timing to get max benefit, but
that is likely outside the ability of most diy'ers... me included :)

probably too much effort to get variable timing for the time, effort and dollars spent.

personally i would settle for a hit in efficiency just to have reliable power at any level of efficiency
as long as i could get maybe 2 of the 3 kwatts typical of a listeroid.

heck i might even settle for 1.5 kwatt if it worked out to be easily attained and reliable.

as the old adage states
"you get 90% of the result with 10% of the effort,and
conversely the last 10% will require 90% of the effort"

so maybe it follows that one could expect
1/2 the result with 1/2 the effort?

maybe that is enough result for most folks?

good enough for the girls i run with  :)

bob g
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on October 20, 2008, 11:14:01 AM
Hello Marcus and BobG.,

I agree with most of what you've pointed out Bob. Most people miss the oxygen displacement that occures with a gasious fuel versus a liquid fuel in an IC engine, plus all the extra nitrogen comming thru the gasifier along with the  gasious fuel stream. That is why I went with a larger displacement 12/1 versus the more practical 6/1. I believe I can still get 6hp for a 3kw useable electrical output.

Marcus if you go back and review Carb23s recent posts where he sucsessfuly converted a 6/1 Listeriod to methane he has info that shows what BobG. was explaining about the diesel govenor automatically controlling the diesel fuel side. This confrims what Blacksea7 (the former Lister engineer) has said previously on this forum about substitution rates and the diesel govenor controlling the diesel fueling.

June 2009 Edit: on a 6/1 Listeriod trying this method Jim Mason has reported, "duel fueling is (too) touchy". He also says now, "duel fueling (Listeriods and ChangFa's) scenarios are very unsatisfing" . And has stated he will convert these engine and try developing them as single fuel woodgas only. S.U.

Marcus the storage of producer/wood gas came up on Bioenergy lists Forum recently and the consensus seemed to be NO it was not practical to store wood gas due to the carbon monoxide  component degrading seals and wanting to strip oxygen molocules out of any source to convert to more stable but unburnable CO2. Also the hydrogen componet is a slippery devil hard to keep sealed in and especially good at sqeezing into most metals at the molecular level causing enbrittlement. This has been one of the chief holdbacks on the hydrgen powered car development. That plus it only has 1/4 the energy of methane, 1/5th the energy propane and will not liquify under any practical temperature/pressure so travel range really sucks.

Marcus don't worry too much about this gasifer being too big for a 6/1. You can always use slip in tubes in the reduction cone to decrease capacity.
June 2009 Edit: this tube reduction idea when tried by many others consistently failed due to fuel /charcoal flow blockages. On chunked, chipped woody fuels a minimum 3" reduction restriction in an Inbert style hearth is proving to be the smallest practical.

 I also have come to believe if anyone is going to be able to design one of these small engine gasifiers to work on machine chipped wood it will be Jim Mason.

Marcus one of the best mechanics I ever known was the orthopedic surgeon who put me back togather a couple of times. Plus it really does help to know some chemistry to do this stuff.
There are lots of expeirenced true offgridders on this forum to quiz. For starters: Hotater, Diesel Guy, and Tom.

SteveU.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: mbryner on October 20, 2008, 05:04:02 PM
Thank you SteveU and BobG for your insightful replies. 

Doh!  For the moment, I forgot about the oxygen displacement, too.   So how do you ever get greater than about 50% woodgas mix?   When you talk about 80% woodgas, how is that possible?   It would seem the oxygen concentration would be too low to have combustion.  SteveU: are you making or buying a butterfly valve from somewhere for the air-gas mixing?

BobG:  50% efficiency would be adequate, so the decreased BTU's are not a big problem.   I have the regular ST head setup and will send the juice to an Outback inverter which has an AC-input charging circuit.   It should compensate and use whatever amperage it gets sent for charging the batteries.   Taking AC from a regular ST head was easier than using a very large alternator w/ high-amperage lower-voltage DC output and running it to a separate charge controller.   In short, the lower BTU's don't matter, because the woodgas is free.

I was a chemistry minor in college, but that knowledge slips away quickly when not used.   What you mention about woodgas storage makes perfect sense, though.   About conversion to CO2, and O2 causing enbrittlement.

(Yes, I too have known quite a few ortho docs who are quite good auto mechanics.   The rest of us sometimes joke around about how they oftentimes are good people-mechanics, but forgot about the rest of medicine's pathophysiology, pharmacology, etc.)  ;D

Marcus
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on October 22, 2008, 04:21:39 AM
Hello Marcus  this is my fourth attempt to post you in two days. It gets shorter each time.

The %s we've been talking about are gasious fuel replacing diesel NOT air fuel ratios. It will always take some diesel to start the ignition process. I want mine to remain duel fuel capable so spark ignition conversion is out.
Since these are fixed speed engines it will not be nesasary to have a air/fuelgas mixing butterfly.
Two ways I see to do the gasious fuel control:
 
1) Create engine vacumn and suck it in.
Pipe the gasious fuel into the intake no farther than 12" from the intake valve. Control this fuel volume with a metal gate valve. Above where the gasious fuel comes in have a metal quarter turn ball valve. These are being used by others as emergency engine air stop valves. this valve partially opend Will create the manifold vacumn. Before the fuel gate valve have threeway metal ball. This will have an All Closed, Gas to Engine, Gas to Flare positions. Once best positions are determined mechnical stops can be set for repeatability. Can be all manual. Or automated. Would result in some power loss due to throttling the air in like a gasoline engine.

June 2009 Edit: as noted in reply #20, Jim Mason tried this method found it , "(too) touchy" and " unsatisfing". No further explainations. Lack of power? Lack of speed/load response? Or just a pain dealing with two separate fuel supply and delivery systems. I did ask. But could get no further explainations. S.U.

2) Use the gasifier blower motor running all the time to blow the gasious fuel into the intake manifold.
All the same except the upstream air valve would always be left completly open.
Again manual operation or automated. Does create a safty hazard in the engine shed with the pressurized 20% carbon monoxide in the gasious fuel.

Pro and cons to each method.

I'd posted more details before  with references but maybe next time now.
OK you guys blast away at these ideas!!

SteveU.

Damn it finally worked.
OK this is from an old 1972 welding manual:
"This hydrogen known as atomic hydrogen (H single atom) is deposited freely in the weld. For awhile it remains free and is able to travel throughout the weld (metal). When two atoms of hyrogen meet in a void in the weld ( all metals are porous especially castings) they form molecular hydogen (H2). As more and more molecular hydrogen builds up in these tiny spaces the gas builds up pressure. The pressure can reach the tensile strength of the steel, and of course. . . cracks form." Ah Ha! So thats what the pretty blue flames in my new hot  burning wood stoves has been doing to the cast iron at 2-3000 hours. Its not just simple expected carbonization.
 
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on October 28, 2008, 12:53:48 PM
Hello All,

Take a look at this Youtube vidio of a NZ high schoolers "Futures Fuel Project"

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gtyx-gbgoU

This was highlighted  on the Gasifacation Lists by site sponsor Tom Miles. The builders name is Jake Martin. He designed and built this under the guidance of gasifacation scientist/developer Doug Williams. It helps to have direct assistance from one of the best.
I need to go "borrow" some band width so I can hear and see at full clarity before I can fully comment on the vidio. The effort looks to be very, very good. Shows fuel conversion through its various stages; the best layout of Doug Williams ideas on post gasifier gas cleaning/cooling/filtering that I've seem so far. Not a lot of engine time yet. But does show that Jake Martin is working toward overdriving a syncronous motor to generate AC. I think. I'll have to take the neighbor a dozen eggs and see this again in real time with the audio component.

Enjoy
SteveU.

Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on November 05, 2008, 05:45:28 AM
Hello Marcus
Sounds like you will definatly have your gasifier up and working before me.
Did Jim Mason supply documentation/operational guidelines with your kit??

Some thoughts:
You really don't want to run tarry gas through your engine. Have you seen pictures of what clean blue almost clear flare gas flames looklike? Any red/orange is bad gas for an engine.

No one has commented on my proposed gas into engine control ideas.
We will probably be on our own on this.

Johnathan Spreadbough recommended    www.murrayequipment.com/      for stainless tubing.
On their web site they show the quarter turn ball, gate and butterfly valves. The ball and butterfly valves must be easy turning becouse they list electric and pheumatic actuators for them.

In Oregon there is a company called Reliable Steam Engine they show mechanical automation controls for their steam boilers and engines. They could be a source for ideas and valves.
www.pioneertelephonecoop.com/~carlich/RSE/RSEschematics.html
ph 541-528-3380

Let me know how I can help out.

SteveU.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on November 06, 2008, 02:41:34 AM
Here are some pictured gasifier fueled gen sets posted on the gasifiers.bioenergylists.org web site by Max Gasman back in 2007?

The pictures were at a Finnish Ecology meet. The Finns obviously like stainless steel too.

At: http://www.ekoautoilijat.fi/index.htm
Then open up "Kuvagalleria" (photogallery). You can enlarge the thumnail shots shown. There is pictured a single cylinder/big flywheel, 6cly and Chev V8 generator sets.

And NO I do not read/speak Finnish.

Enjoy
SteveU.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: mbryner on November 06, 2008, 03:51:43 AM
Notice the nice sized wood chips/blocks they were making.  8)  If only my chipper did that! 
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: mbryner on November 06, 2008, 04:07:06 AM
The electric actuated valves at murrayequipment.com were interesting, but did you look at the price?!
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: mbryner on November 06, 2008, 07:42:46 AM
Here you can see how far along I've come in putting the beast together.   The gasifier itself is now in one piece.   After putting the stainless steel heat exchanger coils on, I put the gasifier core in the outer shell and sealed it w/ a clay based gasket material (weather-stripping that Jim Mason sent).   For the pipe joint threads I used Antiseize.   Is that adequate?   Will it hold up to the heat?   Now I just have to put together the packed bed filter, cyclone, and fan.   Then it's ready to try out.   Sorry, the fan and rest of the pieces are behind the hopper in the pic.   Maybe I'll get a few more pics tomorrow.

Link:  http://docbryner.homelinux.com/~marcus/4images/details.php?image_id=7071

No, Jim didn't include any documentation or operational guidelines.   But his website has plenty of pics, and it's relatively easy to put together.   We were going to talk on the phone again when we both had time, but it hasn't happened yet.   Just e-mails.    Hope you get your's soon.    I'm eager to hear how someone else fares....

Marcus
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on November 19, 2008, 09:39:09 PM
Hello all
Take a look at this this web site listed on the gasifier forum:
www.DynaMotive.com

A private company has developed and patented a process to turn biomass pyrolization gases into a liquid fuel product. They call it "BioOil"
Looks like a large scale industrial process like the Fisher-Tropser (sp) coal into synthetic liquid fuels.
BioOil would be transportable and storable. And once burnt could be said to be turning wood into elctricity.

Interesting developement.

SteveU.
 
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: mbryner on November 21, 2008, 11:42:14 PM
SteveU.,

Very interesting and promising.  Looks like the BTU value of their fuel is quite a bit less than fossils fuels, quite a bit less than expected, given we are hoping for 10-30% less HP w/ wood-gas than diesel.   (Correct me if I'm wrong?)  Also, it doesn't store for more than a few months.   Hmm.   But, things like this will hopefully stimulate more producer gas R&D.

Marcus
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on November 23, 2008, 06:13:33 PM
Hello Marcus

Yes their BioOil product has less energy and a shorter storage life than current petro fuels. Petro fuels displaced wood, coal, vegioils and even elctricity for these and "other" reasons a hundred years ago. Even though you and I and others can grow more trees and make stationary power plants wood fueled, a liquid fuel is OPINION! a much better as a tranportation fuel.

Woodland forests becouse of their three dementionality are considered the most effiecient solar energy desifiers and converters on the planet. The land mass of our planet was recently at least 30% covered by forests. It can be again. Forests are the untimate renewable no-till crop. A viable way to use this resource as a tranportation fuel is really exciting. Add in the wind, direct solar, tidal, to the current hydro and I think we can now see a good, reasonable future for our children and grandchilren.

In the meantime we do the best we can we what we have today.

SteveU.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on November 27, 2008, 07:57:52 PM
Hello All

I just read an interesting post by Dr Tomas Reed on the Gassification Lists forum. Quote:

"Fischer Tropsch diesel has been around since the 1930s. South Africa currently gets 50% of its liquid fuel from coal using this process.
The Community Power Corporation (www.gocpc.com) has developed a simplified gasifier of diesel from producer (not synthesis) gas that makes diesel at the 10-20 gal/day level in conjunction with their 50(60)kW power gasifier. Diesel, power and heat all out of the same biomass gasifier. How 'bout that!"

Interesting indeed. Last time I was on the CPC web site there was not this information.
Dr Reed has done contract design work for them so he may be releasing this information prematurly.
Theroretically feasible. Wonderfull developement if they have actually achieved this.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.
SteveU.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on December 03, 2008, 03:34:42 AM
Hello All

I've been reading some posts by Ken Boak over on the Yahoo Lister owners group. He seems to have the most interest in woodgasify fueling his CSs.
On Nov 8th he posted some interesting India Institute of Science research papers at:

http://eprints.iisc.ernet.in/cgi/search/simple?q=hosahalli&action_search=Search&_order=bytitle&basic_srchtype=ALL&_satisFyall=ALL

Very, very interesting and encouraging engine and fuel consumption information.
These show an optimum usable Compression Ratio of 17/1 on both dual fuel (woodgas/diesel) and straight woodgas. Just what most CSs are set up at.
They show timing curves at different CRs of 11.5 to 17/1 with Nox data.
Graphed cylinder pressure rise times per crank angle at different CRs. Dual fueled 17/1 had the highest fattest curve. Means more/greater  push for more degrees of crankshaft rotation.
June 2009 Edit: MY MISTAKE HERE. The results were with a 3 cylinder DI style engines. I have since discovered the Indian engineers have abandoned CS style IDI woodgas research and development.  S. U.

They have 15 years accumulated field experience on 3.7 kWe to 20kWe systems with fuel substitution rates of 63 to 83%.
They chart  breakdown/maintinance cost for the gasifier, engine and gen haed over the course of 2190 days.
Lots and lots of good information here.

I hope some of you will take an interest to read through these papers and kick what you see back and forth with me.

Thanks
SteveU.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: mkdutchman on December 03, 2008, 12:38:30 PM
SteveU,
Thanks for that information, very interesting indeed.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on December 19, 2008, 09:52:39 PM
Hello All

Jim Mason has just released assembly intructions for his GEK gasifier design at:

http://gekgasifier.pbwiki.com

Marcus could you view and comment on this please.

Reguards
SteveU.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: mbryner on December 20, 2008, 07:42:01 AM
Hi SteveU. and everyone else,

Those instructions are great!  I already see missteps when I put it together: need more weatherstripping in places I didn't know needed it.   Hmm, guess I'll have to take apart what I started last month and recheck.   Unfortunately, Jim and gang have not posted the first-run startup instructions yet.   And the wiki pages are for a GEK 2.0, which has a few new designs compared to my 1.0 version.   When you get the parts, it will all make perfect sense.   Have you asked Jim Mason recently about the status of your kit?  Maybe they got the new version started and wanted to do a run of GEK 2.0's instead of the old version.

My new plan for the GEK will be using it for all day runs of well pumping via the Listeroid. 

Marcus
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: oliver90owner on December 20, 2008, 09:07:15 AM
SteveU.

was recently at least 30% covered by forests. It can be again.

I like your optimism, but I am afraid it is ungrounded.  Like - where are you going to put the extra ten billion people when our energy supply is overground rather than underground?  The tropical rainforests have been depleted for agriculture for food (among other reasons).  Where are you proposing growing enough food for all these extra mouths (and their animals)?

Until mankind realises the need to stop raping te Earth, for the 'benefit' of mankind, and reduces the population to a manageable level your ideals and aspirations will count for nothing.

That is my simple opinion of the subject.  Sooner or later mankind will exterminate the species, as we know it, from the planet Earth.  Or some other unforeseen(?) calamity will befall the Earth and cull the population to a sensible level.  As I see it future populations will look on our part of history as the era when mankind spoiled the Earth and destroyed/exterminated such a large part of the rest of the Animalia and Plantae kingdoms.

Regards, RAB
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on December 20, 2008, 07:20:53 PM
Good Morning

Hi Marcus. Good to hear.

RAB when the human population crashes, as it will, the forests and grass lands will self generate. This is evident in parts of the world now, eg: New England farm land and the and the Chernobel (sp) abandoned lands. Humans as a species are  in with the wolves, coyotes, deer, canines and cats, ect. We are all supremely adaptable.  It is the specialized fragile species that die out. Read your natural history for the last 50-100,000 years; no matter what natural or man made catastrophes all of these wide spread adaptable smart species have survived and then thrived when conditions favored.
My comment was directed to a group of people here on the forum who as individuals have taken it upon themselves to take responsibility NOW for their own destinies and prepare  for a sustainable future.
My wife and I have no blood children. We are in this for the species.
Those who try and claim doom and gloom for the human race are manipulators and thieves and should be ignored for your own peace of mind and self-worth. They are no different then any of the priests and shamans of the past working you for their own self-gain.

All my own opinions
SteveU.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: mbryner on January 11, 2009, 11:07:28 PM
hey SteveU,

I got an e-mail from Jim Mason a day or 2 ago saying he was up in Northern Oregon/Southern Washington visiting family.   Did he bring you your GEK?  He asked if I wanted help setting mine up and said he would be coming through here this weekend.   I wrote him back but he hasn't written back yet. 

Marcus
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on January 12, 2009, 03:06:14 AM
Hey back Marcus

If you are able I think you should try and work with him on set up and first smoke. Then you can be the "local" expert.
 I would probably be able to day trip to your location for a handshake and congratulations if possible.

Best to the expanded family. Five more and you can refinance your own Social Security.
SteveU.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on January 12, 2009, 09:05:55 PM
Hello all

Here is a tid bit the was posted by Benjamin Domingo and expanded on by a GF on the "Sabatier Process" in the Gasification Lists forum.
Paul Sabatier was a French chemist 1854-1941 who won the Nobel Prize in chemistry in 1912 for his work in "The Method of Direct Hydrogenation by Catalysis"
In his Nobel Society lecture at

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/chemistry/laureates/1912/sabatier-lecture.html

he descibes how when certain organic hydrocarbons were exposed to a nickel catalyst under relatively low pressures and temperatures he was able to produce liquids that resembled "Pennsylvanium petroleum", "Baku petoleum", and "Rumanium petroleum" along with high calorific gasses.
His paper is long but well worth a careful reading.
In section II. paragraph (5) . . .hydrogenation action exerted by nickel on CARBON MONOXIDE/DIOXIDE can be used. . . for the production of Methane. . .
Unfortunately my high school chemistry doesn't allow me to fully appreciate his work.

Hey "Nickel City" Doug, is this what sparked you interest in chemistry?

Regards to All
SteveU.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: Doug on January 16, 2009, 11:35:14 PM
No but it was a movie from 1980 called the Formula.

You want nickel plenty of it in my blood and bones  WML ( weak meloncholic laugh )

There is a product out of Finland right now being imported to Canada called Aspen 2t and 4t.
These are synthetic 2 and 4 cycle gasoline replacements fuels made from natural gas using FT.
They also have a diesel fuel made the same way....

Doug
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: mbryner on February 23, 2009, 06:37:23 AM
OK, SteveU. and I collaborated today and attempted to create woodgas from my GEK system.   We succeeded, sortof.   It made woodgas, but we need more operator training it would seem.   The flame was not very pure, more orange-red than we wanted, instead of blue.  But, it works!!!   We resisted the urge to stick in smoke in the air input stream of my 6/1.   See pics:

(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=900&g2_serialNumber=1)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=902&g2_serialNumber=1)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=904&g2_serialNumber=1)
(http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=906&g2_serialNumber=1)
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on February 25, 2009, 06:17:37 AM
OK all. To clarify the pictures Marcus posted: he's the young vigorous fellow holding the blue gas supply hose and I'm the tired looking old white haired man with the bucket of chunked oak pallet wood.
We got burnable gas production ten minutes after light off and the smoky red yellow flames did turn into a clean motor grade blue hydrogen blue flame that lasted for another twelve minutes then we lost flammability. We inspected and found we had consumed the majority of the initial 2 liter/1kg fuel charge.
We recharged with wood block fuel and the same sequence occurred but with a shorter time duration. This time the problem proved to be bridging of the fuel blocks creating a burnt out hollow space. Knocked that down with a poker and reloaded with another 2 liter/1kg fuel charge. This time when the burnable gas stopped Marcus was able to reestablish it by rotating and shaking the burner/ash grate. We kept up this trial and error operator training discovery process for two hours and consumed the 18 liters of prepared wood.
Lessons learned:
Marcus is right:  we needed to install the 20 gallon/90 liter fuel hopper so we could have a continuous fuel supply.
Marcus  wants to add a fuel stirring device;  I want to try engine shaking to settle the fuel - it  WILL need something.
It WILL also need some type or motor works to rotate the grate timed intermittently or rotated slowly.
A full hopper load should last about 5 hours.

Later
SteveU.

Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on February 28, 2009, 03:58:56 PM
Second thoughts

Now having fired up Marcus's GEK I can see this gasifier or any gasifier is still going to be very operator dependant. There are still many variables in fuel type, size and moister stacked onto the engine variables of single/multiple cylinders, RPM, and load that have to be accounted for. Any gasifier will have to be specific purpose adapted. And then still need in useage adjustements.
Biodiesel making will force you to be a chemist/pipefitter. Looking at steam engine operators in the past few years shows me they really need to be a machinists and an equipment operator. Gasification is going to require a mechanics and equipment operators outlook. Fits me.

Just like here;  some of the wood gasification guys are using a very math, science, engineering approach, and others like me, need to baseline learn by look/seeing, hearing, touching/feeling, smelling and even occasionally tasting everything ( but, only when DOCTOR Marcus isn't watching - a little matter of PAHs and HEs ).

I know you guys; after the engine hype and found India sand, you aren't going to believe anything less than a 500 hour engine running experience. This is good. This should be a minimum.


In the meantime, here is the very best short explanation about gasification I've read yet.
Oh yeah, those pesky PAHs and HEs are explained in here.

http://www.distributeddesign.net/tiki-index.php?page=Gasification

Enjoy
SteveU.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on April 02, 2009, 04:49:28 PM
A GEK owner named Bruce Chovnick in Florida USA posted a YouTube vidio of his system successfully running a 5kw genset:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?V=LwJF_hQJcTY        or search out the    PlanetGreenSolutions GEK    vidio
He's had his since December and has been in operator training and system development to run his pine shavings/horse manure fuel. Shows the importance of operator experience and having a truely dry fuel. What Marcus and I used later measured out as 17-22% moister.
Enjoy
SteveU.

June 2009 Edit: turns out the good gas results achieved were with dry ice in his supplementary coolers. Not something a fella' is likely to have on the Day After or if off grid.
S. U.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: mobile_bob on April 02, 2009, 05:09:11 PM
hmmm horsecrap?

well if it will run on horse, it should work on bullcrap!

get yours hookedup and drag it over here,, there is lots of bullcrap in and around this place

:)

thanks for the link steve
pretty cool unit he has there.

bob g
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on April 08, 2009, 09:12:00 PM
Ha!Ha! I can appreciate the sentiment Mobile Bob. Problem is here on the wet side of the Cascades bull/cow, pig shits are all too wet and soupy to burn. If you have enough of it much better to build a digester and make methane, which unlike woodgas; CAN BE bagged or compressed and stored.

Regards
SteveU.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: Doug on April 28, 2009, 04:18:49 AM
This might be of interest.....

http://www.spaco.org/Woodgas/FirstTest42009.htm

This fellow has one of those Chinese systems Utterpower was selling.
This is the firts information on this type I have found in web form
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on May 07, 2009, 02:06:09 AM
Hi Doug
I must have missed your post getting the three gardens tilled in, getting new fencing and a clothesline up. AND, mowing, mowing, mowing!! Finally a couple of windy stormy days. Good.
I have been following with interest on the Gasification Lists these folks working through attempting to get motor grade fuel gas out of their $400.USD Chinese gasification stove. You can hear the skepticism in Kevin Chisholms voice there (he sells these as stoves on the East coast) trying to advise them. But  now having seen two working gasifiers and hanging out with the guys over at the Yahoo WoodGas group for the last few months, now that they have added a cyclone and are going to go with additional cooling/filtration I DO think with religious fuel preparation they may be able to get a good 2 hour usable gas run out of this before it plugs up with ash. Others experimenting with the GEK gasifier kits are finding ash cleaning out needed at  5-10 hours run time or 100-200 lbs/50-100 kg fuel usage intervals. Over in the Yahoo WoodGas group photo section a fella posted cut opened up pictures of the Chinese cooler filter box showing the baffle chambering and water cooling coils along with pictures of the ChangFa engine he was going to fuel. Somebody over there posted a gasified Chinese Engine running claim. Two of the fellas  there Mike LaRosa and Wayne Keith have the reputations of being able  "to make gas out out of a straight piece of pipe".

Doug, you like engines. On on one of the woodgas sites there has been a running thread about what would make the IDEAL small gasified engine. Lister CSs and ChangFA got thrown in the first three posts. The Redstone was out by the tenth post. The big singles were declared to be: Too heavy, Too unportable, Too hard to source - US EPA importation concerns. The ChangFa clones were called too "clanky". A REAL problem is these small slow speed engines will not pull an even enough suction through the cyclones to spin out the gunk. And to even create enough suction on a 6/1 Listeroid to pull the gas through the reactor/filtering train restrictions the throttling loss is making the  output power unusable. Need a 3600 RPM screamer or a multicylinder has been the consensus. After running a gauntlet of Arrows, GM/Cummins diesel/gas conversions to Izuzu/Kubota refer units to Vtwin Onan, Briggs, Honda gas engines finally an Australian fellow  pointed out Doug Williams was now recommending an Indian 3 cylinder factory converted gaseous 1500/1800 RPM unit:
http://www.prakash-india.com/product/biomass-genset.htm
Looking through their complete Renewable Energy section under "About Biomass" and see they will even supply a licensed gasifier to match.

Now knowing  that I am using a "non-ideal engine" with my Listeriod, but using the acumulated advice of the from the Yahoo WoodGas fellas and others, I now know I will probably have to power BLOW through a  gasifier, use a big pulse dampener filterchamber chamber, and INSULATE the reactor  to conserve and concentrate process heat. Their words have been:  "(either) Suck it's socks off! (or) Blow it's brains out!", "Getter' good and HOT and keep 'er HOT", "Have you melted the nozzles or reduction tube yet? (When you do you will know) You are getting close. (Then)Use better metal"

Regards
SteveU.

Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: Doug on May 08, 2009, 05:45:26 AM
If I were going to import any engine from India Prakash would not be high on my list ( they sold some Listeroids here I think from Utterpower for a short time ).

The engine I would try and get would be a KOEL RB 33. Good luck KOEL won't sell them to you ( its a Petteroid 3 )

As for the Chinese gasifier I think its interesting that they were sold for engine use but the people importing them and making those claims never actuly showed any video or details
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: vtmetro on December 14, 2010, 01:45:34 AM
Nineteen months later .....  how have your wood gas/Lister projects worked out?
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: SteveU. on August 29, 2011, 12:11:59 AM
Hi Guys
Been a long time since I've even looked at this topic thread. Came here to refer some fellows wanting to know my first woodgasing operating experience. Refered them back to my experience and pictures with MarcusB. shown earlier here.

So Mr vtmetro askes a good question: 19 months later and where we at??
I am up to ~200 operating hours on 11 different gasifier designs. Piece a cake now making woodgas for 3 kW of power for boring after boring hour. Doesn't have to be brainac totally tar free. Pick the right engine. Learn to operate a system with your own woods, in your own climate for your own needs to make "good 'nuff" fuel gas. See here for DYI:
Google up YouTubes for PhilC. system at "GetSomeBass1" woodgas videos.  Google up for Daniel "Foxridgecampground" woodgas videos.
Read here many times DutchJohns pdf in English for making Microgasifiers;
www.woodgas.nl

For buy-it systems see where the APL/GEK people have evolved to;
www.gekgasifier.com     Open up the "Buy It" tab and let it load. Read it all for a history.

See here for a different designers All stainless steel systems I have been involved with. I have insisting on a 5000 hour overhaul interval and 20,000 hour minimum service life as design goals for true working offgrid capable systems. I have now system tested these to be able to project this:
http://victorygasifier.com
Both of these are now evolved mechanically mature systems and I do not expect any major changed or improvements now. Yes $$$$ and $$,$$$. That is the price for years of the development hours, set backs, the hundreds of prototypes built, and then the quality of  materials needed to put this experience into real metals available as produced systems. They both encourage their "One button" "Turn key packages" These ARE NOT KISS. Pass, save the money. And then put in the time to learn to operate manually. And then YOU design a simple timer automation system you can understand and maintain.

You will see that all of these have also evolved to spark ignition four cycle gasoline/gasious fueled engines. As have I. Sold my 12/1 India hot-rod "hopper". Kept the nice but noisy RS180 Jeng Dong for a small diesel. Truth be, to spark convert a Lister/Listeriod/Yanmar/Changfa engine while possible, and been done now, is a terrible waste of these rare hard to get excellent multi-heavy liquid fuel capable engines. And Duel fueling with diesel as the pilot ignition and woodgas as the primary fuel source has proven under actual generator variable loading and especially off load dumps to be unstable resulting in dangerous over-speeds with over-voltages and frequency swings.

I know of two now CS Listeriod 6/1 spark converted woodgassed efforts. Both have never documented more than a 1000 to 1500 watt generated capability. I have personal gotten 3.2 generated loaded kilowatts out of a little 3600 RPM Briggs 5.5 kW (gasoline) scream-a-matic genset.  The 972cc three cylinder Kubota's NA engines able to make a solid 5 kW AC or DC generated power woodgased fueled. Very quiet and smooth.
So pick the right engine. Pick a gasifier design and then really LEARN to use it with easy to gasify chunked up wood fuels and this is very doable.
Quote from one of the thousand + hour gasifier guys I have put up before, "Gasification is only 25% mechanical and 75% experience."

My lines of advice now are,"Only fuel wood Burning is actually Learning.",  "And Only engine running on woodgas is Really Learning Well."

If you want;  Google up "Steve Unruh woodgas" follow all of the links to see how I have evolved to form these opinions.

Regards
Washington State Steve Unruh

Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: vtmetro on November 16, 2012, 05:11:12 AM
Not practical for a Listeroid conversion, then, in conclusion.
Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: cgwymp on November 16, 2012, 12:27:47 PM
Just a friendly warning -- I went back to the beginning of this thread just to get some context and clicked the link to allpowerlabs.org. Got this:
Quote
Safe Browsing
Diagnostic page for allpowerlabs.org

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    Site is listed as suspicious - visiting this web site may harm your computer.

    Part of this site was listed for suspicious activity 4 time(s) over the past 90 days.

What happened when Google visited this site?

    Of the 7 pages we tested on the site over the past 90 days, 6 page(s) resulted in malicious software being downloaded and installed without user consent. The last time Google visited this site was on 2012-11-15, and the last time suspicious content was found on this site was on 2012-11-09.

    Malicious software is hosted on 1 domain(s), including adonclick.net/.

    This site was hosted on 2 network(s) including AS26347 (DREAMHOST), AS15169 (Google Internet Backbone).

Has this site acted as an intermediary resulting in further distribution of malware?

    Over the past 90 days, allpowerlabs.org did not appear to function as an intermediary for the infection of any sites.

Has this site hosted malware?

    No, this site has not hosted malicious software over the past 90 days.

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Title: Re: Wood Gasifer Kit Now Offered
Post by: Madness on March 03, 2013, 01:33:18 PM
For those who are interested there is a very good web site http://www.woodgas.nl/microgasifiers/microgasifiers.html (http://www.woodgas.nl/microgasifiers/microgasifiers.html) about microgasifiers. Theses are designed for engines producing horsepower similar to that of a single cylinder Lister.