Lister Engine Forum

Lister Engines => Petteroids => Topic started by: listerdiesel on October 01, 2006, 04:35:26 PM

Title: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: listerdiesel on October 01, 2006, 04:35:26 PM
As promised, I have set up the first 12 Petter engine type data sheets on our website.

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Technical/PetterData1.htm

There are 3 or four pages per engine, 40 pages including the menu page.

I have a pack of Petter info to pick up in SFO, the  week after next when we go over for a short break, that will be added as soon as we have time on our return to the UK.

There are a couple of Armstrong-Siddeley engines in there as well, petters took their business over (along with a few others!) in the days of ABOE and Brush Group.

Peter
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: Doug on October 01, 2006, 11:09:36 PM
Very Interesting!!!

Thank you for posting this. This raises as many question about the Indian varient as it answeres. For example the 116 mm stroke must be Indian and what about the larger bore versions such as the 95mm the 102mm and the 114mm are these also Indian or were they adapted from other Petters.

The angled fuel injector from he series two is seen on all the Petters I have pictures of but there are a lot of changes.

Thank you again.
Doug

I've had a chance to realy look over the specs of these Petter types and I now see some intersting relationships between the Indian varients and the originals.....

114.3 mm was a PVD standard bore piston, perhaps it was the source of the liner and piston for the Indian AV1 big bore clone.

PH1 clearly shows the Petter oil line for the rocker box tapped off the front of the engine oil gallery just like my clone...

AS1 shows a combination cam and crank output shaft at the front of the engine simmilar to others I have seen made on some water cooled Indian wins and triples.

Wonderful stuff, it leaves me wanting more. Was there any  parts interchangeability between the different types?

Non of these engines share the gear oil pump that mine has, I wonder it came from?
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: Doug on October 02, 2006, 03:08:52 AM
Peter I have another question for you a little off topic about Nordberg....

Did they manufacture other industrial equipment? Specificaly I ask this because there is a Hoist at the mine where I work installed sometime in the late 1930s with the name Nordberg. Since its an internal shaft this hoist was decommisioned and left intact and its in a dry area so the preservation is nearly perfect.

Only an electrician could call a 1000 hp hoist a thing of beauty but it represents a technology thats gone all mechanical controls, iron casting and heavy steel forgings bolted and rivited that today would never be made in one piece but welded and run by computer.

I guess I need to go to 3800 level and snaps some pictures if your interested. Quality won't be good I'm afraid the power to the hoist room was 25 cycle and we don't have any services to electrical room for lighting.

Doug
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: listerdiesel on October 02, 2006, 08:03:17 AM
Doug:

Firstly, the oil pumps were Hobourn-Eaton types on a lot of the engines:

PJW, ASJW, AS, PJM, AC2, BA1, AA1, AB1, PHWM, AV1 LAB, PH, PJ, AVA Ser II, PCM.

Plunger on some:

PA, PAK, PAZ1, AV1 SerI.

Splash on some:

A1, AP1.

Gear on some:

PDV.

That's after a quick flick through the manuals.

Hobourn-Eaton pumps are the concentric rotor types with one lobe less on the rotor than the outer stator, which in fact rotates as well. They are widely used in power steering applications where their compact format and low parts count is a major selling point. BMC used them on the original Mini after years of gear pumps on their engines.

Regarding Nordberg, yes they had a very big machinery manufacturing side, they made all kinds of rock crushers/graders and conveyer lines etc etc.

I have a couple of contacts in the USA who have supplied me with additional engine material for the website, let me know if you want to be put in touch.

Peter

Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: listerdiesel on October 02, 2006, 08:10:39 AM
Very Interesting!!!

114.3 mm was a PVD standard bore piston, perhaps it was the source of the liner and piston for the Indian AV1 big bore clone.


Missed your question in my first reply post.

The AVB is more likely to be the source for the AV1 big bore clone, or the B series. I haven't got any data on my own AVB and don't want to pull the thing to pieces to check!  The B was a big water-cooled lump as well, there's one down on the Somerset levels off the M5 motorway that I looked at a couple of years ago, probably still there out in the weather....

Peter
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: Doug on October 03, 2006, 12:14:28 AM
Thank you very much for looking up this information for me.

And regaurding the Nordberg hoist if you could PM me the email I would like to learn a little about the history of this machine. Just a guess but I assume it went into service 1940. The completed muck circut was three shafts 5, 6 and 8 hoisting from 7000 to surface before the big guy # 9 was completed in 1969. 5 has been demolished and 8 hoist was burried in sand fill spil about 30 years ago after its decommisioning.
This leaves poor old # 6 quietly sweltering near the 3800 level hot zone ( an ore fire burning since 1970 ) so no one goes there accept me.

Cool stuff you find in such an old hoist room. Back in the day REAL carpenters built nice cabnets, benches and seats. Clay flower pots left by some unknown hoistman who like a little colour where the sun never shines.
Log books with entries as far back as the 1950's for inspection and dealy tests. Spare parts, brushes soda ash for the speed control, instrumentation ect things that will never get used.

Only an electrician could get misty over a giant green hoist.....

Doug
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: listerdiesel on October 22, 2006, 04:45:16 AM
The data sheets that we collected in the USA last week are being scanned and put up on the website.

These are USA dealer sheets supplied from the UK by Hawker Siddeley.

First 4 sheets are up, 2 pages/sides per sheet.

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Technical/PetterData2.htm

or through the Technical menu page.

Peter
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: listerdiesel on October 22, 2006, 04:47:01 AM
Thank you very much for looking up this information for me.

And regaurding the Nordberg hoist if you could PM me the email I would like to learn a little about the history of this machine
Doug

Doug:

Sorry I couldn't get around to sorting that email address out before I went to the USA, I'll sort through the inbox and find that for you.

Peter
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: listerdiesel on October 28, 2006, 04:03:08 PM
All the presently available pages are up and running, let me know if you have any problems with any pages or links.

There should be 86 pages altogether, with three menu pages:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Technical/PetterData1.htm

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Technical/PetterData2.htm

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Technical/PetterData3.htm

Peter

Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: Doug on October 29, 2006, 12:47:40 AM
This sheds a lot of light on the Indian Petter's. It almost looks as if the basic AV and PH types have been modified to use every conceivable Petter bore stroke combination in an attempt to build two modular engines types that can cover the entire Petter line.

Doug
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: listerdiesel on October 29, 2006, 07:49:57 AM
This sheds a lot of light on the Indian Petter's. It almost looks as if the basic AV and PH types have been modified to use every conceivable Petter bore stroke combination in an attempt to build two modular engines types that can cover the entire Petter line.

Doug

Petter probably did the same thing, as they also had air and water-cooled models of most engines except the very latest small air-cooled models.

I don't think the B engine ever got to air-cooled either.

Peter
 
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: listerdiesel on November 11, 2006, 08:29:58 PM
Have added another four data sheets, mainly water-cooled versions of the range:

PH1W, PH2W, PJ3W and PJ4W

Peter
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: Mr X on November 21, 2006, 04:18:45 PM
Im thinking Gtc 2- 14 hp . Should one or can one get cast iron pistons what other options are available. Is it easy to put a glow plug in these puppies. Or is electric start a must for frosty mornings.

Greg
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: listerdiesel on November 21, 2006, 09:16:55 PM
Im thinking Gtc 2- 14 hp . Should one or can one get cast iron pistons what other options are available. Is it easy to put a glow plug in these puppies. Or is electric start a must for frosty mornings.

Greg

Greg:

You might find it better to start a new thread on this subject, certainly you'll get more responses that way.

For the record, most Lister and Petter water-cooled engines had excess full devices plus the compression change-over in Lister's case, the later air-cooled engines had a little oil cup that let you put a measure amount of engine oil into the inlet port which acted as a cold-start assistance device.

Nowadays you would be allowed to use either becuase of the smoke generated on start-up, and most are high enough compression now not to need it.

A glowplug can be very useful, especially on an older indirect injection engine.

Peter
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 25, 2018, 09:57:01 AM
Greetings my good fellows


Is there anyone that could send me the workshop manual of PAZ1 model 2

Best regards to all
Pedrosa
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: Johndoh on August 25, 2018, 10:43:07 PM
Make a donation to the internal fire museum and they will be happy to supply it via email
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: sirpedrosa on August 26, 2018, 12:38:31 AM
Hi Jhondoh

Is there a chance somebody of this comunity to share it?

BR
VPedrosa
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: sirpedrosa on September 13, 2018, 09:46:00 PM
Greetings my good fellows

I'm wondering again if there is a good soul, that can tell me the tightening torque of the nut (20) to the pump body.

Best regards to all
Pedrosa
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: EdDee on September 14, 2018, 08:22:35 AM
Hi Pedrosa,

FWIW, I tend to under-tighten things on pipes and pumps, get the unit operating, then nip them up a little at a time until leaks stop...

Regds
Ed
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: dieselspanner on September 14, 2018, 08:36:47 AM
+1 for Ed, once you've got a feel for the joint concerned and it won't stop leaking strip it down and rebuild with a hydraulic sealant, Loctite 542 or similar.

Remember spanners are made to a certain length, proportional to their size, this is to help prevent over enthusiastic tightening!

Combination spanners allow the wise engineer (and evil bastards, such as my self) the luxury of clipping two together to double the force in times of dire emergency............

Cheers
Stef
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: sirpedrosa on September 14, 2018, 09:31:26 AM
Thanks both

By now I'm just a tire kicker. I mean there will be with all certainty, the right amount of torque, to tighten  this (and all) nut.

I do not want to break any pieces. and I believe that the correct torque is provided by the manufacturer, taking into account the working temperature and expansion.

Can someone give me the scientific value.

BR
Pedrosa
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: Johndoh on September 14, 2018, 10:58:55 PM
Jim Perkins from the UK is an expert in all things Petter and a gentleman as well I have bought parts from him in the past and I read his book on Petter engines.

http://www.petterengines.co.uk/
Title: Re: Petter Industrial Engine Data Sheets
Post by: sirpedrosa on September 15, 2018, 12:40:03 AM
I'd email twice. So far no response.

Anyone has got the Bryce FAOAB manufaturer manual??

BR
Pedrosa